CHKDSK damages Partition Table

[NoelDP]

I'd try using the HD manufacturer's test utility to check the disk out - in case it's a logic board problem, as I don't believe it's likely to be a problem with the physical disks.

 

[AndyTampa]

Back in post #4 of this thread I explained that the logic board had failed and has been replaced. This new board, I believe, is starting to exhibit the same behavior. It dropped momentarily from the BIOS. I heard a buzz, the display went blank and windows restarted. I had to go back into the bios to reconfigure the hard disk priority as I had been having to do before the repair. I can't see how a logic board would only affect 61 files though in a single directory.

The HDD manufacturer's utility said the disk was fine. I can't run it again now because TestDisk is still creating that image. HDTune also said the disk was fine.

ADDENDUM: After posting this, I let TestDisk finish the image. I still have no clue what I can do with that image. There doesn't appear to be a way to restore an image once you've made it. Then I ran the HDD manufacturer's utility. I ran the quick test and the extended test. No bad sectors were reported. The Western Digital utility reports both tests PASSED.

 

[NoelDP]

@townsbg - we're talking apples and oranges here
The logic board under discussion is the one in the HD - not the motherboard.

 

[F5ing]

I've used Testdisk extensively and successfully for recovery purposes, but have never tried out its imaging capability. It may work just fine, maybe creating images that can be used by other software to restore (might want to check out their forum on that), but I use other software for imaging/cloning. Here's a free imaging app that should work for you: Imaging with free Macrium - Windows 7 Forums (tutorial from sevenforums).

Replacing the logic board on an HDD is trivial, yet it's really not. The board has to match the drive exactly. Brand/model match is often not enough. Model runs and boards change over the course of the model's life. It often means you have to match the manufacturing location as well as the date code (like within a week or so).

I think you ought to get a copy of all your data before proceeding much further.

 

[AndyTampa]

Macrium is no longer free. It is a 30-day trial. I am not looking to replace the logic board at all. That was already done properly a couple of months ago. I'm trying to repair the file system.

 

[F5ing]

I was referring to possible problems with the prior logic board replacement, not a new replacement.

When I go to the Macrium site linked to in that tutorial it states that it's still free for personal use: Macrium Reflect FREE Edition - Information and download

 

[AndyTampa]

I apologize. I must have gotten it confused with the other ones people keep telling me are free that aren't. It might work as a quick fix, but I would like to find something that will meet my needs in the long term. It won't let me do the incremental backups. I'd have to be doing full backups every time. Acronis and EaseUs used to be free but now are a trial. I'm not sure about DriveImageXML yet. There's another one, but that can only do the backups if I'm not booted into Windows which makes it a little more difficult to use. That's probably why I haven't bothered to remember the name.

NoelDP? Do you have any more ideas to fix these files? I'm not getting any reports that the hardware is damaged.

 

[AndyTampa]

I tried connecting the hard drive to a working XP machine so I could delete those files. It still didn't happen.

If I clone this drive to a new empty hard drive, will the damage go with it?

Would it be better to just image and restore to the new drive?

 

[AndyTampa]

Hello? Is anyone out there besides the crickets?

If I clone this drive to a new empty hard drive, will the damage go with it?

Would it be better to just image and restore to the new drive?

 

[NoelDP]

Sorry about that, Andy.
Since we have pretty much established that the problem exists in the MFT, it's likely that cloning the drive will also clone the problem.
I would suggest a clean install as preferable - although it couldn't hurt to try a clone first.

 

[AndyTampa]

Would a disk image be better than a clone? A clone will copy used sectors and damaged sectors where an image won't. Would that make a difference?

 

[F5ing]

Would a disk image be better than a clone? A clone will copy used sectors and damaged sectors where an image won't. Would that make a difference?

Hard to say which method would be better. Both methods likely will carry over damage to the new drive, whether sector by sector (copying the MFT) or otherwise (copying by referencing the MFT). I think either way, the damage would be somewhat repairable. Whether it's worth the time, though, is another story.

I've got a hunch that your problem is that drive's replaced board. You've mentioned that even after board replacement your system's BIOS has dropped the drive and that you see similar problems when you connect it to another machine. The BIOS drop doesn't make me feel comfortable. Is it a motherboard or a driveboard problem? I'd suspect a drive board problem. That's where the drive's LLF info is stored, and is at least part of why a new board has to be an exact replacement (it's also why a consumer can no longer do a true LLF on a modern drive -- even though there is software out there that says you can).

It's hard to predict how HD diagnostics software would report the status of that drive. The board might be just fine, as well as the drive itself, but if they're even slightly mismatched what would be reported? What problem would the board know to be able to report (how can it know that it doesn't quite match the drive itself)? It might just say that everything's fine, yet you're having somewhat severe problems with the file system residing on it.

I think you're gonna have to just try one or the other (clone/image) and see what you get out of it. If the result is too disconcerting try the other method to see what happens. If that turns out worse just redo the first method you tried and go from there.

 

[townsbg]

Would a disk image be better than a clone? A clone will copy used sectors and damaged sectors where an image won't. Would that make a difference?

A clone does a sector by sector copy of your drive onto another drive. An image is a copy into a file for potential recovery later on. Perhaps if your documents are backed up you should do a complete hard drive reformat followed by a clean install. You can make an image first if you want and have the room. If it still corrupts then it very well could be the drive in which case I would just replace it. That's what I would do.

 

[AndyTampa]

@F5ing - I did not replace the board myself. The board is an exact physical match. The board and the Adaptive Data was transferred by a company that specializes in replacing boards. They have a specialized computer that reads the ROM chip on the old board and copies it into the ROM on the new board. If not on the chip or the chip is bad, this computer retrieves the data from the disk itself.

@townsbg - I have a new drive that I am going to put the Operating System on so wiping the current drive is unnecessary at this point. A new install will cause me more headaches since I don't have all the install programs for some of my programs and can't reinstall them. Some of those companies are gone. I just don't want to copy a bad MFT onto the new hard drive if I can help it.

So I'm still in a quandary. Since I've had trouble deleting these files because the software doesn't recognize them as valid files, is it possible that these files will not copy onto an image or clone? If so, then can I assume that a file by file image would be best? I could then copy the files to the new installation using the copies I made earlier. If I do a sector by sector clone, then I would most likely transfer the problem as well. Does this sound logical?

 

[F5ing]

@F5ing - I did not replace the board myself. The board is an exact physical match. The board and the Adaptive Data was transferred by a company that specializes in replacing boards. They have a specialized computer that reads the ROM chip on the old board and copies it into the ROM on the new board. If not on the chip or the chip is bad, this computer retrieves the data from the disk itself.

Gotcha. Exact physical match wasn't what I was really worried about; it was more about the data that's stored on it, as an exact physical match doesn't do you any good if the data doesn't match. Didn't know it was possible for a third party to do all of that. Must've been rather expensive. Can you tell us the name of the company that did that for you?

@townsbg - I have a new drive that I am going to put the Operating System on so wiping the current drive is unnecessary at this point. A new install will cause me more headaches since I don't have all the install programs for some of my programs and can't reinstall them. Some of those companies are gone. I just don't want to copy a bad MFT onto the new hard drive if I can help it.

So I'm still in a quandary. Since I've had trouble deleting these files because the software doesn't recognize them as valid files, is it possible that these files will not copy onto an image or clone? If so, then can I assume that a file by file image would be best? I could then copy the files to the new installation using the copies I made earlier. If I do a sector by sector clone, then I would most likely transfer the problem as well. Does this sound logical?

Both methods (clone or image) will involve the MFT.

 

[AndyTampa]

@F5ing - I did not replace the board myself. The board is an exact physical match. The board and the Adaptive Data was transferred by a company that specializes in replacing boards. They have a specialized computer that reads the ROM chip on the old board and copies it into the ROM on the new board. If not on the chip or the chip is bad, this computer retrieves the data from the disk itself.

Gotcha. Exact physical match wasn't what I was really worried about; it was more about the data that's stored on it, as an exact physical match doesn't do you any good if the data doesn't match. Didn't know it was possible for a third party to do all of that. Must've been rather expensive. Can you tell us the name of the company that did that for you?

Certainly. It was www.donordrives.com - Donor Drives and cost about $70 for mine which included the board and the transfer of information.

 

[F5ing]

Certainly. It was www.donordrives.com - Donor Drives and cost about $70 for mine which included the board and the transfer of information.

Many thanks for that info, AndyTampa. Looks to be a reputable company; seem to have been in business for only a couple years or so and couldn't find much truly relevant info on them, but their site has some good info (as well as prices for simple recovery services) and I did find a couple of seemingly legitimate "references", one of which is here (for anyone else in need of this type of service):

Professional Hard Drive and PCB Supplier - Over 10k Drives : Hard drives for sale

Not really a reference but seems to be an honest and forthcoming "employee". Also found a couple reviews that sounded good, but who knows if they're legitimate.

I've replaced the boards on a few drives for around $30 to $45 each. I always thought I've simply been been lucky doing it, though. It's always seemed to be a gamble; not knowing it's gonna work until I put it back together and test it. I've got that site bookmarked. I'd much rather pay the $70 and be done with it, avoiding the time it takes to find the right board and anxiously waiting to get it installed to see that it works (cause if it doesn't it means more time/$ anyway). I think I'll try them next time someone comes to me with a troubled drive that I can't recover by using only software.

As far as your current drive is concerned (dropping from BIOS), read the last item under the Symptoms of PCB failure heading from their site page (if you haven't already):

Hard Drive PCB Circuit Board & Head Swap Match Requirements - Donor Drives

Also the info under Data Extraction Service (regarding your logical access problem):

Damaged, Burnt Hard Drive PCB Repair and Diagnostics Services - Donor Drives

No quotes as their pages are "copyrighted".

Thanks again, and good luck!

 

[AndyTampa]

As far as your current drive is concerned (dropping from BIOS), read the last item under the Symptoms of PCB failure heading from their site page (if you haven't already):

Hard Drive PCB Circuit Board & Head Swap Match Requirements - Donor Drives

That was the problem I was having and I did not get that from their site. I deduced it on my own based on how it was behaving and how I kept it running to get the files off of it. I used a fan to blow air over ice blocks onto the drive board. I had kept it going for 12 hours at one point when it had been dropping in a minute (until I let one ice block get too warm). I had at one point removed the board to take a look at it and indeed it had a burnt smell, the foam pad under the board had melted areas, and the pins on one of the main chips were pitted and blackened.

Also the info under Data Extraction Service (regarding your logical access problem):

Damaged, Burnt Hard Drive PCB Repair and Diagnostics Services - Donor Drives

Also notice on that page that diagnostic services are free, although you must pay shipping both ways. ($5 or $10 each way?)

The board has been working flawlessly since I got it back. They also shipped back the bad board which confirms they actually replaced the board. The one instance of it dropping recently, may have been something else entirely. After that incident was another where the side of the case (I have it open for cooling) had slipped and I kicked it back with my foot. The computer just turned off. Something may have been loose inside which caused the drive to momentarily lose connection or power. I still don't trust the drive itself, which is why I want to fix the file system and start a regular backup imaging protocol. I'm very happy with Donor Drives.

 

[F5ing]

Also the info under Data Extraction Service (regarding your logical access problem):

Damaged, Burnt Hard Drive PCB Repair and Diagnostics Services - Donor Drives

Also notice on that page that diagnostic services are free, although you must pay shipping both ways. ($5 or $10 each way?)

The board has been working flawlessly since I got it back. They also shipped back the bad board which confirms they actually replaced the board. The one instance of it dropping recently, may have been something else entirely. After that incident was another where the side of the case (I have it open for cooling) had slipped and I kicked it back with my foot. The computer just turned off. Something may have been loose inside which caused the drive to momentarily lose connection or power. I still don't trust the drive itself, which is why I want to fix the file system and start a regular backup imaging protocol. I'm very happy with Donor Drives.

Even an extra $10 would be worth it, to me anyway. It would save me hours of research trying to find the right board, and I wouldn't be worried about whether the board I had bought matches the drive and will actually work when I finally get it on there. I've been lucky.

If you ever find yourself in the same situation having to chill a drive to access it, you might consider buying one of those $15 USA/PATA/SATA adapters. That way you can remove the drive from the machine, attach it to the adapter, and slip it into a ziplock bag that you can place into an ice/water bath. You can boot your machine from a live CD/DVD/USB to gain access to it. Never tried this myself, though. I've got a couple of those adapters and I've always thought I'd give that a shot if I thought there was a need.

The info I was referring to in the last link I posted from the donordrive website was more to do with what your old bad board might have done to data on the platters. It mentions possible trouble accessing all of your data even after installing a new working board on the drive. They explain that this could be data damage that was caused by your old board as it bit the dust. I know it seems rather odd that it only concerns 61 files in a single directory. Maybe you could try accessing them offline, via a bootable CD/DVD/USB. That'll get you around any problems your installed OS might be having with the drive (including NTFS security).

And it might be that your best bet is an offline clone/image using something like Macrium. I've had good results using Clonezilla on troubled drives. Remember you can always switch to another program later on for long term use (I recall you mentioning something about that).

It's good to hear your drive is performing well with the new board (healthy, at least electrically/mechanically). So it sounds like you have time to try various things to see which recovery method gives you the best results.

 

[AndyTampa]

If you ever find yourself in the same situation having to chill a drive to access it, you might consider buying one of those $15 USA/PATA/SATA adapters. That way you can remove the drive from the machine, attach it to the adapter, and slip it into a ziplock bag that you can place into an ice/water bath. You can boot your machine from a live CD/DVD/USB to gain access to it. Never tried this myself, though. I've got a couple of those adapters and I've always thought I'd give that a shot if I thought there was a need.

I thought of that but didn't want to chance putting water anywhere near the computer or the drive. Especially since I was using my girlfriend's computer to copy the files.

Maybe you could try accessing them offline, via a bootable CD/DVD/USB. That'll get you around any problems your installed OS might be having with the drive (including NTFS security).

I already tried adding the drive to a working XP machine and couldn't affect the files. Shortly after that, the XP machine's hard drive started squeaking and the hard drive on the Brighthouse DVR started clicking.