Questions of Vista,RAM and errors

[Huntkk]

Sorry, I'm new and wasn't sure where to post (I thought the title sounded appropriate) I did check a work computer today, also with Vista & 2G RAM. It does not allocate all of its free RAM to cache (still 800MB sitting in free). I'm presuming Vista allocates as much as possible to cache depending on your previous pattern of use then if you say this is normal?

 

[Fumz]

Coding Horror: Why Does Vista Use All My Memory?

 

[nomercy84]

Now, getting back to the issues - first install CPUID's CPU-Z, remove one set of RAM, and make a screen shot of the Memory tab. Now do the same with the other RAM installed (notice, in both of these instances, only one set is installed - we want one set and then then the set - not both sets together.

Hi
Now I have gotten the information for my memory chips (adn actually learned how to use the dual channeling appropriate:D). What do I do next or more importantly how do I do it, so I dont **** something up here appriciate all of your help guys

 

[Fumz]

I have a feeling this exercise is going to tell us what the problem isn't. Next up is to compare notes. Is the voltage for both kits 1.8? What are the timings on the looser kit?

If both kits are not the same voltage, then tell us before proceeding.

Assuming both kits are 1.8 volts, install the RAM with the tighter timings (lower numbers) and then manually set timings for the kit with the looser timings (higher numbers). This will let you know if the tighter kit is able to run at the looser kit's speed? If everything works out fine, then install the kit with the looser timings. You should make sure that each kit goes into slots of the same color. You're probably not going to be able to boot with all 4GB's because RAM is probably not the problem, but we've got to do this exercise anyway cause it might be?

You may have to manually set the voltage to 1.8 volts. Some boards undervolt, some overvolt. When adjusting voltage, do not make any other changes to the bios. Enter the bios, adjust your voltage, save your changes and exit. Go back to the bios upon reboot and then adjust your timings.

Do not adjust anything but the CAS, RAS to CAS, RAS Precharge and tRAS. Leave tRC and the Command Rate (or cpc) on auto.

If you follow the directions and still can't boot with 4GB's, then the problem, most likely, isn't your RAM; rather, that pesky bios update we discussed way back. Have you had a chance to see if the MSI Live Update Tool installs?

 

[Huntkk]

Thanks Fumz

 

[nomercy84]

Hi, I will check the voltage and such later this evening. just wanna update with: I have tried the auto update of msi, it does not support Vista x64

 

[Fumz]

OMFG! Having spent the last half hour at the MSI forums I feel for you. Horrible site.

Anyway. I think we managed to figure out a way to get you a new bios. I didn't read through all the 4GB threads, but I read enough to conclude that early MSI bioses do have issues with 4GB's; which is what we suspected all along.

You have two options. The first is creating a bootable CD: BIOS Update per bootable CD . The second way is to use another MSI USB flash tool, this seems to be the way to go; they state this method is supported by 64-bit Vista. You'll have to register to see these threads:
Login Make sure you carefully read the user guide before starting: Login

Normally I'd tell you just to get a floppy, but having dl'ed the latest bios and read through their "how to", I find their tool antiquated, the process convoluted and their instructions lacking; it's the worst flash utility ever! :eek: So, until MSI gets their Live Update working with 64-bit (don't hold your breath), then I'm afraid this is the hoop you must jump through.

Don't get discouraged though. It'll turn out to be much easier than it sounds... just make sure you're focused. Flashing a bios is not the time to lose attention.

 

[Chappy]

Another thing you need to look at right away is if your BIOS has the option to Remap Memory. This option is added to the BIOS for 64bit use to eliminate another 4G RAM issue and has been known to cause problems booting with 4G's installed and this option Not enabled in the BIOS.
Boot into your BIOS setup, watch your start screen carefully to see what key you need to tap at startup to enter Setup. Many times it's Delete key but some are different.

Look for the NorthBridge setup and if there is an option to Remap memory, enable it and exit saving changes. If you're not sure if this option is there, contact your MoBo support and ask them if that option is included in your BIOS version.
If you don't have this, then listen carefully to the advice given abd follow it closely and try not to improvise too much on it.

 

[nomercy84]

What numbers should I look at to deside wich is the looser or the tighter. the numbers is: for the set from kingston: Dram frequency: 321.6MHz FSB: DRAM: CPU/10 CAS#Latency (CL): 5clocks trcd: 5clocks trp: 5clocks tras: 15clocks trc: 21clocks CR: 1T the GEIL kit: DRAM frequency:402MHz FSB_DRAM:CPU/8 CAS#Latency (CL): 5clocks trcd: 5clocks trp: 5clocks tras: 18clocks trc: 24clocks CR: 2T so whoose is what?? the numbers are pretty close.

 

[nomercy84]

Also the Geil kit got 1,8volts and the Kingston kit got 2,0 volts

 

[Fumz]

You're looking at the wrong tab. We don't want to know what the memory is currently running at (memory tab), we want to know its jedec specs at 400MHz (spd tab). For both kits, you wrote down the current timings, not the timings from the SPD tab. You can tell because you gave us current speeds and the divider the RAM is using... eg, 321.6 cpu/10 and 402 cpu/8.

However, I won't ask that you jump through that hoop again, we've got bigger fish to fry. :eek: The Kingston wants 2 volts and the Geil wants 1.8 volts. This may be a problem? Are 3 sticks in the machine now? If so, run cpuid and go to the memory tab. What voltage is the memory using? The problem I see is that either one kit may be undervolted or one kit may be overvolted. That may cause problems, and we should resolve this issue, but I don't see it preventing you from booting with 4GB at all... I see it hard locking, giving you bsod's and restarting, but not the initial problem you reported.

The other problem is that I don't think both kits are DDR2 800. Why is the Kingston running at 643MHz instead of 800MHz? Which kit is the one you just bought?

If you want to get both kits to function you're going to have to see if the Geil can run at 2.0 volts. It most likely can, but a lot of memory just does not react well to more voltage. If this is what you want to try you'll have to put the Kingston back in, alone, and repeat the exercise.... its voltage requirements at 600MHz may be different from its voltage needs at 800MHz? Timings will most likely be higher too.

Anyway, get back with all this info before we proceed.

 

[nomercy84]

how can I find out if Geil can run at 2volts?

 

[Fumz]

That's a question we can address later.

If you're insistent about running the memory together, then you need to find out what the Kingston uses at 400MHz; I've told you how to do that. 2.0 volts is what the Kingston uses at 643MHz. We do not yet know if it also uses 2.0 volts at 800MHz. It may use 2.1 volts at 800MHz. If that's the case, then you'll have to run the Geil at 2.1 volts.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

• Find out what the Kingston uses at 400MHz with cpuid's SPD tab?
• Which kit was the most recent purchase?
• What voltage does the bios default to with 3 sticks in the machine?
• Is the Kingston really DDR2-800?

 

[nomercy84]

Hi Kingston is unable to operate at 400MHz when I change it to 400MHz in bios it wont boot and it wont give me any form for signal to the screens. Kingston is able to operate at Auto settings and on 2volts. I bought them at the same time but the I thought it was something wrong with one of the kits so I sent them in and got the Kingstons back so the Kingston is the newest pair

 

[nomercy84]

the spd on Kingston show that it is running on 1,8volts on 200MHz 266MHz and 333MHz even though I choose 2volts in the bios I attached screen shot of the spd for the Kingston kit

View attachment spd-1.bmp

View attachment spd-2.bmp

 

[Fumz]

You have two choices: You can run both kits at 333MHz (ddr2 667) or you can return the Kingston. It was my understanding that you bought Kingston DDR2-800? I think it's also your understanding:

I have one set of GEIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2 800Mhz BGA Brushed Aluminum Heat Spreader Retail (GX22GB6400DC) and one set of KINGSTON DDR2 HyperX PC6400 2048MB CL4, Kit w/two matched HyperX 1024MB LL (KHX6400D2LLK2/2G)

Clearly, the Kingston is not PC-6400 aka DDR2-800. That would irritate me. I would return it and get what you paid for.

Either way you go, you'll have to manually set the timings as that's what MSI tells you to do.

 

[nomercy84]

I have now filed to send them back. for now. can we get all to work together? appreciate it :D

 

[Fumz]

Use the Kingston's timings.

First go into the bios and load the optimized defaults. Save your changes and exit. Re-enter the bios and manually adjust vdimm (memory voltage) to 1.8 volts. Save your changes and exit out. Re-enter the bios and manually set memory speed to 333MHz. Manually set CAS, RAS to CAS, RAS Precharge and tRAS. 5-5-5-15-20. Make sure the Command Rate (or cpc) is 2T. Save your changes, cross your fingers for good luck, and reboot the machine.

In theory this should work as the Kingston uses 1.8 volts at 333MHz; the Geil 1.8 up to 400MHz. The timings are by SPD for the Kingston and the only diff between it and the Geil would be tRC; where Geil is at 21, but that's for 400MHz, so 20 at 333 should be fine.

"Should be". Obviously I can't guarantee it, but it should work out. Just note though that it's always problematic mixing RAM. Even RAM of the same speed is difficult to mix, yours is extra difficult.

 

[nomercy84]

Sounds like a pain int he ass to have two different chips. I can only manually choose 400MHz, 800MHz and up. Also attached the spd for Geil in case you wanted to know

 

[Fumz]

I don't mean to question your abilities or your comfort level, but perhaps you should read through this, or forget about using the mismatched sticks? Howto: Overclock C2q (quads) And C2d (duals) - A Guide V1.7 - OverclockersClub Forums

I assume you're currently running a 400MHz fsb? If you use a 333MHz FSB, then set the dram ratio to 1:1, this will enable you to run the memory at 667MHz... aka 333MHz ddr.

Sounds like a pain int he ass to have two different chips.

It is.