From 4GB to 8GB?

[Adrian Wainer]

Perhaps I would be better to wait until DDR2 comes down in price even further and I can get 8 GB all at once.
Opinion seems to be divided as to whether faster RAM than I presently have would makle any difference.
Further comments welcome, best wishes, John

Hi John, my feeling about going for faster RAM is that unless one is big time involved in overclocking it is not worth swapping out a 4 Gigabyte set up for another 4 or 8 Gigabyte RAM setup just to get faster RAM sticks, why I mention overclocking is that when one is attempting over-clocking regular RAM as opposed to fast RAM can act as a limit as to how far one push the overclocking to. As for DDR2 comeing down in price as DDR2 has now been replaced by DDR3 this will presumably be depressing DDR2 prices however it can also happen that when hardware gets older it can increase in price as fewer manufacturers are interested in producing it new product for an old technology. As you have DDR2 this also raises the issue, would you want to buy more DDR2 memory that you would not want to transfer to your next computer should you build your next computer yourself but want to canabilize your present computer for parts for it since computers now have moved on to DDR3. DDR2 has some advantages over DDR3 in that DDR2 uses a concurrent system rather than a sequental system seen in DDR3 but as DDR3 evolves the other strengths of DDR3 will hopefully allow it to outperform DDR2 by a considerable margin. My best shot is leave things as they are or if you want to upgrade to 8 gigabytes try and get hold of a 4 pack of 2 Gigabyte sticks on a special offer.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

 

[johnwillyums]

Thanks Adrian, Shawn and everyone else,
I presently use 4 GB of 667 mhz of RAM so I probably would notice the difference but I think you're right Adrian, I should wait 'til I see a deal on 8 GB of 1066 Mhz RAM and go for that.
Looking back at Overclockers it looks like I'd have to spend about 180 GBP to get 4x2 GB of 1066 Mhz RAM and as you say with DDR3 becoming the norm that can only go down in price so I think I'm better off waiting a while.

Thanks to you all for your time, John

 

[Everlong]

Imo, I wouldn't go higher than 800MHz. The latency with 1066 I've heard is quite high compared to 800MHz, so I think that would balance it out.
I've also heard OCZ RAM doesn't actually reach the rated speeds it has.

 

[Adrian Wainer]

Thanx for that info Everlong, a RAM expert I am not. Though I don't think latency is that much of an issue with Intel Conroes as it is with AMD Athlon 64s. Bye the way had dinner once in a private house over-looking Morecambe Bay fantastic views and wonderful air.


DDR2 vs DDR3: The Battle of Latency vs. Bandwidth - Asus P5K3 Deluxe WiFi & Corsair TWIN3X2048-1333C9DHX Review - Page 1 - Introduction

William Henning Thursday, July 5th, 2007

(note the date, so there have probably been developments since)

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

 

[Oskari]

My quick two cents...

4Gb might be the 'sweet spot', but sometimes it's prudent to do a little future proofing. In my case (no pun intended), I opted for 8Gb because the apps I run are CS3 (photoshop, illustrator, bridge). Less than 10 days ago I was running a P4 with 512Mb of RAM and could only run CS2. Now, I'm not suggesting that I need that 8Gb, but there's a strong rumour that Adobe's next release (CS4) will be x64. So, it's a matter of I had the cash when I made my new computer purchase and I'm ready when the software comes calling.

BTW, presently Photoshop opens in less than three seconds, when it used to take a minute or two. I'm impressed!

 

[SCSIraidGURU]

CS2 can do 6GB of RAM. CS4 should be able to handle 8-16GB in x64.

 

[SIW2]

Hi,

I have a related query. Currently I have one 2gb stick DDR2 667mhz - does anyone know if adding another 2gb of the same in dual channel config. would make much difference?

Also , how much improvement would I see removing the existing 667mhz and replacing it with 2x2gb 800mhz - has anyone done this?

Thanks

SIW2

 

[Fumz]

Thanks Adrian, Shawn and everyone else,
I presently use 4 GB of 667 mhz of RAM so I probably would notice the difference but I think you're right Adrian, I should wait 'til I see a deal on 8 GB of 1066 Mhz RAM and go for that.
Looking back at Overclockers it looks like I'd have to spend about 180 GBP to get 4x2 GB of 1066 Mhz RAM and as you say with DDR3 becoming the norm that can only go down in price so I think I'm better off waiting a while.

Thanks to you all for your time, John

You would be well advised to keep reading the overclockers forums. You will find that unless you overclock, buying 1066MHz RAM is utterly pointless. The only thing you'll accomplish going from 800MHz to 1066MHz is to increase your memory's latency; that's it. Increasing latency will make your system slower.

 

[Brink]

Imo, I wouldn't go higher than 800MHz. The latency with 1066 I've heard is quite high compared to 800MHz, so I think that would balance it out.
I've also heard OCZ RAM doesn't actually reach the rated speeds it has.

Na,

DDR2 800 MHz RAM has a latancy around 4-4-4-12 to 5-5-5-15, and the DDR2 1600 MHz RAM has around 5-5-5-15 (at least mine does). Not much if any difference except more speed. A 1066 MHz stick is usually just a factory overclocked 800 MHz stick anyways.

Hope this helps,
Shawn

 

[skunksmash]

as stated above 800mhz is where its at currently...

there is little or no performance increase to be had running a frequency past your systems FSB

1000mhz @ 4-4-4-12 is the best you will get & most good 800s will do that

DDR3 is super pointless .... its just e-peen at the moment

 

[johnwillyums]

Hi Folks,
Well I reckon I need to learn what Latency actually means.
I've just priced up some 8GB kits on Overclockers.co.uk-

Geil 8GB (4x2GB) PC2-6400C4 800Mhz Black Dragon DDR2 Dual Channel Kit
800Mhz RAM Speed CAS 4-4-4-12 Timings, 1.9-2.0v. VDIMM =135.15 GBP

Geil 8GB (4x2GB) PC2-6400C5 800Mhz Black Dragon DDR2 Dual Channel Kit
800Mhz RAM Speed CAS 5-5-5-15 Timings, 1.8-1.9v. VDIMM =105.74 GBP

So the difference is 30 pounds, the timings and the voltage.
Why is 4-4-4-12 better than 5-5-5-15?

I could probably just about afford either of these kits but as has been said it might not be worth doing. Comments welcome.

Best wishes to you all, John

 

[skunksmash]

go for the £105 kit.... they're no doubt the same ICs anyway
8gb @ 800mhz 5-5-5-15 is still pretty good

if need be the CL5 dimms will probably do CL4 with a little push

 

[Brink]

John,

This article will help explain all about RAM latency timings.

Understanding RAM Timings | Hardware Secrets

I agree with Skunksmash. I would go with the cheaper one. The differences is not worth the extra 30 GBP.

 

[johngalt]

as stated above 800mhz is where its at currently...

there is little or no performance increase to be had running a frequency past your systems FSB

1000mhz @ 4-4-4-12 is the best you will get & most good 800s will do that

DDR3 is super pointless .... its just e-peen at the moment

Hmmm - for one thing my WEI on RAM when my RAM was running at 800 MHz (the default set as there is no JEDEC for 1066 according to OCZ) was around 5.1-5.3, but it jumped straight to 5.9 when I bumped it up to 1000. There must have been *some* difference.

You would be well advised to keep reading the overclockers forums. You will find that unless you overclock, buying 1066MHz RAM is utterly pointless. The only thing you'll accomplish going from 800MHz to 1066MHz is to increase your memory's latency; that's it. Increasing latency will make your system slower.

Not *necessarily true - depends upon your budget, of course :P

Imo, I wouldn't go higher than 800MHz. The latency with 1066 I've heard is quite high compared to 800MHz, so I think that would balance it out.
I've also heard OCZ RAM doesn't actually reach the rated speeds it has.

Na,

DDR2 800 MHz RAM has a latancy around 4-4-4-12 to 5-5-5-15, and the DDR2 1600 MHz RAM has around 5-5-5-15 (at least mine does). Not much if any difference except more speed. A 1066 MHz stick is usually just a factory overclocked 800 MHz stick anyways.

Hope this helps,
Shawn

ROTFLMFAO - OCZ doesn't reach it's speeds? Wow. That's a new one.

Which screen shots would you like me to post showing my current speeds and settings?

I know Corsair, Mushkin and Geil users who have all had similar success rates....

go for the £105 kit.... they're no doubt the same ICs anyway
8gb @ 800mhz 5-5-5-15 is still pretty good

if need be the CL5 dimms will probably do CL4 with a little push

Unless the RAM is lifetime warranted and will be RAM-able even if OC'd, if you want the speed and plan on doing some intensive OC or gaming, pay the money and get hte better RAM. As with any other component, you can OC RAM too - but it gets hot. Fast. I ahve minie running at the advertised specs without a hitch. I ahven't tried *OC* yet because I didn't see a need.

If you ahve no need for OC, the CAS5 will work just fine. It is comprable to the specs on my RAM - and that is fast as it is with only 4 GB installed.

 

[johnwillyums]

Shawn, I read through the article you recommended. I think I'll have to read it another couple of times but I'm getting the idea.

I just ran CPU-Z and looked at my memory timings:

DRAM Frequency 333.3Mhz
FSB DRAM 4:5
CL 5.0 clocks
tRCD 5 clocks
tRP 5 clocks
tRAS 31 clocks
tRC 20 clocks
CR 2T

I've been clicking back and forth to the article but I'm still not getting what the tRAS and tRC numbers mean.
I am getting the idea that this is fairly slow and that doubling it with the cheaper of the 2 Geil kits will mean I'll be able do do twice as many things fairly slowly but with out any messing around changing timings.
Alternatively the dearer Geil kit would only be slightly faster but would mean some complicated BIOS stuff.

Am I getting it or not?

Many thanks, John

 

[Everlong]

as stated above 800mhz is where its at currently...

there is little or no performance increase to be had running a frequency past your systems FSB

1000mhz @ 4-4-4-12 is the best you will get & most good 800s will do that

DDR3 is super pointless .... its just e-peen at the moment

Hmmm - for one thing my WEI on RAM when my RAM was running at 800 MHz (the default set as there is no JEDEC for 1066 according to OCZ) was around 5.1-5.3, but it jumped straight to 5.9 when I bumped it up to 1000. There must have been *some* difference.

You would be well advised to keep reading the overclockers forums. You will find that unless you overclock, buying 1066MHz RAM is utterly pointless. The only thing you'll accomplish going from 800MHz to 1066MHz is to increase your memory's latency; that's it. Increasing latency will make your system slower.

Not *necessarily true - depends upon your budget, of course :P

Na,

DDR2 800 MHz RAM has a latancy around 4-4-4-12 to 5-5-5-15, and the DDR2 1600 MHz RAM has around 5-5-5-15 (at least mine does). Not much if any difference except more speed. A 1066 MHz stick is usually just a factory overclocked 800 MHz stick anyways.

Hope this helps,
Shawn

ROTFLMFAO - OCZ doesn't reach it's speeds? Wow. That's a new one.

Which screen shots would you like me to post showing my current speeds and settings?

I know Corsair, Mushkin and Geil users who have all had similar success rates....

It's not with personal use, just with reviews I've read. Don't actually like OCZ RAM myself, ridiculous heatsinks n' all.

 

[johnwillyums]

Hi Johngalt. As you've probably guessed I'm not doing any overclocking, largely because I'm fairly new to all this and don't know how.
I might one day but at the moment I'm just trying to improve my gaming and general speed in Vista and do a little futureproofing.

Thanks for your input, john

 

[johngalt]

I bought mine *because* of the heatsinks to keep it cool. Work like a charm.

OCZ Ultimate Memory Configurator

 

[Brink]

Shawn, I read through the article you recommended. I think I'll have to read it another couple of times but I'm getting the idea.

I just ran CPU-Z and looked at my memory timings:

DRAM Frequency 333.3Mhz
FSB DRAM 4:5
CL 5.0 clocks
tRCD 5 clocks
tRP 5 clocks
tRAS 31 clocks
tRC 20 clocks
CR 2T

I've been clicking back and forth to the article but I'm still not getting what the tRAS and tRC numbers mean.
I am getting the idea that this is fairly slow and that doubling it with the cheaper of the 2 Geil kits will mean I'll be able do do twice as many things fairly slowly but with out any messing around changing timings.
Alternatively the dearer Geil kit would only be slightly faster but would mean some complicated BIOS stuff.

Am I getting it or not?

Many thanks, John

The CR 2T indicates that your running 2x333.3 MHz, so you currently have 667 MHz RAM sticks. You probably will only see a minor speed improvement going to 800 MHz RAM.

You should not have to mess with any RAM settings in the BIOS though unless you plan on overclocking them (not recommended), or you have added RAM sticks that are mixed and not the same brand and model and have a problem with them. Otherwise, it should automatically have your RAM settings set for you after installing them and turning the power back on.

Hope this helps,
Shawn

 

[ripbox]

Just to say that i upgraded from 4GB to 8GB not so long ago

this was prob's be just being n00b'ish

1st i couldn't boot up after installing the whole 8GB... i had to place 1 stick each boot
and 2ndly i kept getting random freezes mainly while playing games

However after much playing around i found that all i needed to do was to load BIOS fail safe defaults.... and everything is running sweet