4gb of ram and a video card

nutdriver

Member
Hi all:
I want to upgrade my son's system for Christmas and I have a question about ram.

Right now he has 32bit vista premium with 4gb of ram. The video is on board 7100 nvidia.

I want to increase the horse power of the card say to a 9500 series 512 or 1gb.

My question is this. Do I have to alter or lower the ram on the system to make room for the video card ie 512 or 1gb or does the card just lower the amount of ram that is available for the system to use?

Thanks
Keith
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Acer AM1201
    CPU
    AMD 4800+ Dual Core
    Memory
    3 GB DDR
    Graphics card(s)
    ATI Radeon 2100
No, you do not have to do anything other than install the new card. Just make sure the power supply is sufficient to run the card. BTW, go 9800 on the card or better. ;)
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Cyberpower
    CPU
    AMD Phenom X4 9850
    Motherboard
    MSI K9N SLI V2
    Memory
    8 GIG DDR 800
    Graphics card(s)
    EVGA 9800 GT 512mb
    Sound Card
    onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    SyncMaster 220wm
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Hitachi something or other 500 gigs
    PSU
    650 watts
I agree. I have a 9500GT which is so, so. It is not earthshaking. It does the job for a non-gamer, but that's all.
As far as the RAM is concerned, the card comes with it's own RAM. It just needs address space and will lower your useable RAM for 32bit accordingly. So a 1GB card may be counterproductive. Once you installed it, you have to switch to the new card in the BIOS.
Whatever card you buy, make sure it fits into your box. Some of those cards can be awfully big. Read the customer reviews e.g. on the Newegg site.
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell
    CPU
    Q6600
    Memory
    4GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP w2207h
    Hard Drives
    2x250GB HDDs 1x60GB OCZ SSD 6 external disks 60 to 640GBs
    Other Info
    Also 1xHP desktop, 1xHP laptop, 1xGateway laptop
Quick note Nutdriver
32bit operating systems wont see more than 3gb of system memory, be it RAM (System memory) or VRAM (video memory).

EDIT..Should be 4gb Memory max, 3gb to user using the 3gb switch ( LARGEADDRESSAWARE) and 1gb for kernel memory...details below
 
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My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Wired2fire custom evolution
    CPU
    Core2Extreme X6800 @ 2.93ghz
    Motherboard
    Nforce 4 SLI 16x
    Memory
    Corsair DDR2 800mhz x 4gb
    Graphics card(s)
    XFX Nvidia 260gtx SLI
    Sound Card
    Soundblaster Audigy 4
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 24inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital Cavier 500gb Western Digital Raptor 150gb
    PSU
    Tagan Turbojet 950w
    Case
    Silverstone Timjin
    Cooling
    Fan custom modified
    Mouse
    Logitech MX518
    Keyboard
    Saitek Gamers Keyboard
    Other Info
    Its getting old, been upgrading it over the past few years, mainly the ram and the gpu's. Will hold out till some next year before I build another one.
Quick note Nutdriver
32bit operating systems wont see more than 3gb of system memory, be it RAM (System memory) or VRAM (video memory).

From where did you get this information?
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell
    CPU
    Q6600
    Memory
    4GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP w2207h
    Hard Drives
    2x250GB HDDs 1x60GB OCZ SSD 6 external disks 60 to 640GBs
    Other Info
    Also 1xHP desktop, 1xHP laptop, 1xGateway laptop
I once used 32bit O.S with 4gb ram and 2 x8800gtx (768mb vram each, incase your not familiar with them). A whole lot of memory was wasted. And I think Nuts has an inclination of that. Read on:

Memory Limits for Windows Releases (Windows)
The reduction in available system memory depends on the devices that are installed in the computer. However, to avoid potential driver compatibility issues, the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista limit the total available memory to 3.12 GB. If a computer has many installed devices, the available memory may be reduced to 3 GB or less. However, the maximum memory available in 32-bit versions of Windows Vista is typically 3.12 GB.
The /3GB switch can cause some applications to have problems that are related to address dependencies or to a reduction in kernel space.
Bottom line: if you have 4GB of RAM in your system (or more), and you want to take full advantage of it, start using a 64-bit OS.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Wired2fire custom evolution
    CPU
    Core2Extreme X6800 @ 2.93ghz
    Motherboard
    Nforce 4 SLI 16x
    Memory
    Corsair DDR2 800mhz x 4gb
    Graphics card(s)
    XFX Nvidia 260gtx SLI
    Sound Card
    Soundblaster Audigy 4
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 24inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital Cavier 500gb Western Digital Raptor 150gb
    PSU
    Tagan Turbojet 950w
    Case
    Silverstone Timjin
    Cooling
    Fan custom modified
    Mouse
    Logitech MX518
    Keyboard
    Saitek Gamers Keyboard
    Other Info
    Its getting old, been upgrading it over the past few years, mainly the ram and the gpu's. Will hold out till some next year before I build another one.
The following is taken from

http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm

For many years, it's been normal for personal computers to include a Memory Management Unit (MMU). MMUs were expensive add-ons for old computers, but modern CPUs all have one built in. A primary function of an MMU is to allow a computer to have "virtual memory", which in the PC world means "swapping" or "paging" data in and out of however much actual RAM you have as needed, keeping the swapped-out data in a file, or files, on hard drives.
Virtual memory is what allows your PC to have more than 4Gb of total memory, including the swap file(s). Memory management lets the computer augment its physical RAM, and lets programs running on that computer feel as if they've each got a simple solid space of memory available to them without treading on each others' toes. But virtual memory doesn't increase the amount of physical RAM you can have.
The explanation for the three-to-four-gigabyte problems is that modern computers include an arrangement conceptually similar to the old Upper Memory Area one. Many of the original Upper Memory Area MMIO reserved areas still exist today (for backward-compatibility reasons - otherwise you couldn't install DOS on a new PC), and a few more little ones sprouted above 1Mb as PCs went through their growing pains. Those are preserved today as well.
For this reason, a modern "3Gb" computer, which has 3,145,728 kilobytes of physical memory, is only likely to show something like 3,145,192 kilobytes available (look at the Performance tab in the Windows Task Manager, for instance). MMIO ranges "shadow" some of the physical memory, and so the system can't even see that RAM, at the hardware level.
3,145,728 minus 3,145,192 is only a shortfall of 536 kilobytes, though. So this 3Gb computer gives you 99.983% of the memory you paid for. Install more expansion cards in the computer, each of which is likely to eat some MMIO space for itself, and you'll lose a bit more memory. But you'll have to try pretty hard to lose even one whole megabyte.
I, for one, am OK with that.
But things get worse above 3Gb.
Large areas of the memory between three and four gigabytes are cordoned off for system devices in exactly the same way that chunks of the Upper Memory Area were purloined in the old days. Once again, the processor (and other system components) can talk with some devices by reading and writing memory addresses up above 3Gb.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Wired2fire custom evolution
    CPU
    Core2Extreme X6800 @ 2.93ghz
    Motherboard
    Nforce 4 SLI 16x
    Memory
    Corsair DDR2 800mhz x 4gb
    Graphics card(s)
    XFX Nvidia 260gtx SLI
    Sound Card
    Soundblaster Audigy 4
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 24inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital Cavier 500gb Western Digital Raptor 150gb
    PSU
    Tagan Turbojet 950w
    Case
    Silverstone Timjin
    Cooling
    Fan custom modified
    Mouse
    Logitech MX518
    Keyboard
    Saitek Gamers Keyboard
    Other Info
    Its getting old, been upgrading it over the past few years, mainly the ram and the gpu's. Will hold out till some next year before I build another one.
Clearing up the 32/64-bit memory limit confusion | Hardware 2.0 | ZDNet.com

Due to an architectural decision made long ago, if you have 4GB of physical RAM installed, Windows is only able to report a portion of the physical 4GB of RAM (ranges from ~2.75GB to 3.5GB depending on the devices installed, motherboard's chipset & BIOS). This behavior is due to 'memory mapped IO reservations'. Those reservations overlay the physical address space and mask out those physical addresses so that they cannot be used for working memory. Significant chunks of address space below 4GB (the highest address accessible via 32-bit) get reserved for use by system hardware: BIOS – including ACPI and legacy video support; PCI bus including bridges etc. PCI Express support will reserve at least 256MB, up to 768MB depending on graphics card

installed memory", explained Hilton Locke, Microsoft Software Test
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Wired2fire custom evolution
    CPU
    Core2Extreme X6800 @ 2.93ghz
    Motherboard
    Nforce 4 SLI 16x
    Memory
    Corsair DDR2 800mhz x 4gb
    Graphics card(s)
    XFX Nvidia 260gtx SLI
    Sound Card
    Soundblaster Audigy 4
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 24inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital Cavier 500gb Western Digital Raptor 150gb
    PSU
    Tagan Turbojet 950w
    Case
    Silverstone Timjin
    Cooling
    Fan custom modified
    Mouse
    Logitech MX518
    Keyboard
    Saitek Gamers Keyboard
    Other Info
    Its getting old, been upgrading it over the past few years, mainly the ram and the gpu's. Will hold out till some next year before I build another one.
Let me know if you want more...ive experienced it by the way, not read it, hence the reason I now run a 64bit operating system. In Nutdrivers case, the minute he installs a gpu with more VRAM he will be sacrificing more memory. He can throw the 3gb switch. However...

The /3GB switch changes the way the 4GB virtual address space is split up. Instead of splitting it as 2GB of user mode virtual address space and 2GB of kernel mode virtual address space, the split is 3GB of user mode virtual address space and 1GB of kernel mode virtual address space.
That's all.
And yet people think it does more than that.
I think the problem is that people think that "virtual address space" means something other than just "virtual address space".
The term "address space" refers to how a numerical value (known as an "address") is interpreted when it is used to access some type of resource. There is a physical address space; each address in the physical address space refers to a byte in a memory chip somewhere. (Note for pedants: Yes, it's actually spread out over several memory chips, but that's not important here.) There is an I/O address space; each address in the I/O address space allows the CPU to communicate with a hardware device.

In the end, the max he can use will stay at 4gb no matter what. Different devices will each claim/reserve a portion of that memory. So installing a GPU with more Video Memory will reduce total available memory even more.

Hope that clarifies the reality of having greater than 4gb memory (be it VRAM or RAM) on a 32bit operating system.

Note to nutdriver, you will still have more graphics rendering power and your son will be over the moon no doubt, I was only stating the obvious

Kind Regards
Taz
 
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My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Wired2fire custom evolution
    CPU
    Core2Extreme X6800 @ 2.93ghz
    Motherboard
    Nforce 4 SLI 16x
    Memory
    Corsair DDR2 800mhz x 4gb
    Graphics card(s)
    XFX Nvidia 260gtx SLI
    Sound Card
    Soundblaster Audigy 4
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 24inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital Cavier 500gb Western Digital Raptor 150gb
    PSU
    Tagan Turbojet 950w
    Case
    Silverstone Timjin
    Cooling
    Fan custom modified
    Mouse
    Logitech MX518
    Keyboard
    Saitek Gamers Keyboard
    Other Info
    Its getting old, been upgrading it over the past few years, mainly the ram and the gpu's. Will hold out till some next year before I build another one.
ranges from ~2.75GB to 3.5GB depending on the devices installed, motherboard's chipset & BIOS

Well, to clear up the confusion I think you should go with the above quote from one of your documents. In any case, in my 4GB system it is 3.326GB - not 3GB as you have stated earlier..

4gbmemorylimit.png
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell
    CPU
    Q6600
    Memory
    4GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP w2207h
    Hard Drives
    2x250GB HDDs 1x60GB OCZ SSD 6 external disks 60 to 640GBs
    Other Info
    Also 1xHP desktop, 1xHP laptop, 1xGateway laptop
Thanks for all the replies, good stuff! I went with the Nvidia 9800 512mb card. I won't be able to install it till after the holidays so I will post up then and let you all know how the system performs.
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Acer AM1201
    CPU
    AMD 4800+ Dual Core
    Memory
    3 GB DDR
    Graphics card(s)
    ATI Radeon 2100
I would say with 32bit Operating systems either;

1) 2gb RAM with SLI/Crossfire system featuring cards with >700mb VRAM
2) 3gb RAM with Single GPU >700mb VRAM
3) 4gb RAM with single GPU <512mb VRAM

So I think Nutdriver is alright. Anyone else considering upgrading there memory or video card, take note of 32bit limitations. For the majority of users this wont be an issue but for hardcore users its worth knowing. I have 4gb system ram and 2x 260gtx (896mb VRAM each) so for me I have no option, i have to go 64bit to utilize my resources else I am just wasting my money on components.

WHS, your 3326 memory is based on your components you see, for others it could well be different depending on what they have installed. As I stated though, for the majority of users it wont be an issue. It may potentially become an issue if your computer is upgradeable or you custom build them yourself, like I do.

All the best

Taz
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Wired2fire custom evolution
    CPU
    Core2Extreme X6800 @ 2.93ghz
    Motherboard
    Nforce 4 SLI 16x
    Memory
    Corsair DDR2 800mhz x 4gb
    Graphics card(s)
    XFX Nvidia 260gtx SLI
    Sound Card
    Soundblaster Audigy 4
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 24inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital Cavier 500gb Western Digital Raptor 150gb
    PSU
    Tagan Turbojet 950w
    Case
    Silverstone Timjin
    Cooling
    Fan custom modified
    Mouse
    Logitech MX518
    Keyboard
    Saitek Gamers Keyboard
    Other Info
    Its getting old, been upgrading it over the past few years, mainly the ram and the gpu's. Will hold out till some next year before I build another one.
Thanks for all the replies, good stuff! I went with the Nvidia 9800 512mb card. I won't be able to install it till after the holidays so I will post up then and let you all know how the system performs.

He will love his christmas present, guaranteed!!:)
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Wired2fire custom evolution
    CPU
    Core2Extreme X6800 @ 2.93ghz
    Motherboard
    Nforce 4 SLI 16x
    Memory
    Corsair DDR2 800mhz x 4gb
    Graphics card(s)
    XFX Nvidia 260gtx SLI
    Sound Card
    Soundblaster Audigy 4
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 24inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital Cavier 500gb Western Digital Raptor 150gb
    PSU
    Tagan Turbojet 950w
    Case
    Silverstone Timjin
    Cooling
    Fan custom modified
    Mouse
    Logitech MX518
    Keyboard
    Saitek Gamers Keyboard
    Other Info
    Its getting old, been upgrading it over the past few years, mainly the ram and the gpu's. Will hold out till some next year before I build another one.
i am so confused lol i have a acer am1201 and a gts250 1gb oc and i was wanting to upgrade my comp some more and am goin to get 2 2gb sticks and upgrade my psu it is a stock 250 and i am suprised the card runs considering it takes 450 but i was wondeing if upgrading my processor to a quadcore would be better and i have vista 32bit o.s
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    acer am1201
    CPU
    amd athalonx2 64
    Motherboard
    acer RS740DVF
    Memory
    2gb ram
    Graphics card(s)
    nividia gts 250 1gbddr3 oc
    Sound Card
    hd realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    lg
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    320gb sata
    PSU
    250 lol
    Case
    stock with xtra lights
    Cooling
    2 xtra fans
    Mouse
    microsoft
    Keyboard
    microsoft
    Internet Speed
    7.5mbps
I would upgrade the PSU in any case. 250 is pushing it. The quad is a good idea if you can make a lot of use of it - e.g. video editing, filetype conversion, etc. For normal operation it will not buy you so much. RAM is always good but 3GB is optimal for 32bit. The extra gig (to 4GB) will not buy you anything.
If you really want to give your system a boost, Buy this for the OS ( Newegg.com - OCZ Vertex Series OCZSSD2-1VTX30GXXX 2.5" 30GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Solid State Disks ). Some days they sell it for $99 - just keep checking. Make sure it has Firmware level 1.4 (because of Trim). Your user files you can put on your HDD. My system currently takes 17GBs.
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell
    CPU
    Q6600
    Memory
    4GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP w2207h
    Hard Drives
    2x250GB HDDs 1x60GB OCZ SSD 6 external disks 60 to 640GBs
    Other Info
    Also 1xHP desktop, 1xHP laptop, 1xGateway laptop
ummm that got me a lil more lost lol but yea 3 gb is all im goin and i know some about computers but not alot just what i ahve figured out on my own through trail and error but where would taht thing go in my pc? is that like a processor? or what lol well i dont think it is but i am lost lol
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    acer am1201
    CPU
    amd athalonx2 64
    Motherboard
    acer RS740DVF
    Memory
    2gb ram
    Graphics card(s)
    nividia gts 250 1gbddr3 oc
    Sound Card
    hd realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    lg
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    320gb sata
    PSU
    250 lol
    Case
    stock with xtra lights
    Cooling
    2 xtra fans
    Mouse
    microsoft
    Keyboard
    microsoft
    Internet Speed
    7.5mbps
ummm that got me a lil more lost lol but yea 3 gb is all im goin and i know some about computers but not alot just what i ahve figured out on my own through trail and error but where would taht thing go in my pc? is that like a processor? or what lol well i dont think it is but i am lost lol

The SSD is a Sata disk - but very fast because it has no moving parts ( amongst other things). You install it in one of the disk bays (need an adaptor though because it is a 2.5" format).
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell
    CPU
    Q6600
    Memory
    4GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP w2207h
    Hard Drives
    2x250GB HDDs 1x60GB OCZ SSD 6 external disks 60 to 640GBs
    Other Info
    Also 1xHP desktop, 1xHP laptop, 1xGateway laptop
oh ok i understand now. what i am going for is a gaming computer basically just for call of duty modern warfare 2 and this other game called lost planet i can play that on absolute full spec but there is the odd lil lagg thinkin cause my gts 250 is suckin all the juice from everything so i am definetly gettin a psu and processor thinkin this cause it is cheaper Buy the AMD Phenom X4 9750 Quad Core Processor at TigerDirect.ca but i am not sure this is my first comp i have tried to customize but i did not start from scratch what size psu should i get? and you know any better processor in the same price range and i live in ontario canada so i dont have to pay shipping on that lol so even cheaper and this is the psu i was lookin at real cheap lol Buy the Ultra LSP550 550-Watt Power Supply at TigerDirect.ca
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    acer am1201
    CPU
    amd athalonx2 64
    Motherboard
    acer RS740DVF
    Memory
    2gb ram
    Graphics card(s)
    nividia gts 250 1gbddr3 oc
    Sound Card
    hd realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    lg
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    320gb sata
    PSU
    250 lol
    Case
    stock with xtra lights
    Cooling
    2 xtra fans
    Mouse
    microsoft
    Keyboard
    microsoft
    Internet Speed
    7.5mbps
i was lookin some stuff up and i noticed that my processor is(65nm) and that is 90 or 95 whatever the other size is lol but i think the one i was lookin at is the same and should work right?? i am not sure but i think so
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    acer am1201
    CPU
    amd athalonx2 64
    Motherboard
    acer RS740DVF
    Memory
    2gb ram
    Graphics card(s)
    nividia gts 250 1gbddr3 oc
    Sound Card
    hd realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    lg
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    320gb sata
    PSU
    250 lol
    Case
    stock with xtra lights
    Cooling
    2 xtra fans
    Mouse
    microsoft
    Keyboard
    microsoft
    Internet Speed
    7.5mbps
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