Xp to Vista

[Whinis]

I posted another thread on a different problem but I did not get a reply no my new problem.

Setup:
I have 3 computers on my network and a gaming System
Xp Pro Sp3 Computer 1
Xp Pro Sp3 Computer 2
Vista ultimate x64 Sp1 Computer 3
Xbox 360 ( for sharing movie)

Computer 1 2 and 360 all plugged into a wrt54g with dd-wrt firmware v24 sp1
Computer 3 is pluged into a different wrt54g with dd-wrt firmware v24 sp1 that plugs into the first one.

Underscore (_) means does not connect

Computer 1--------------------------|
________________________________|
Computer 2 ------------------------Router 1---------------------Modem
_______________________________|______ |
Xbox 360 ------------------------- |_____Router 2
_______________________________________|
Computer 3-----------------------------------

Problem : Computer 1 is my mothers computer Computer 2 is a little serve I run for website and email and Computer 3 is my computer. Sometime Computer 1 refuses to see or talk to Computer 3. I can not ping from 1 to 3 or from 3 to 1. But both computers 1 and 3 can ping computer 2 no problems. The xbox 360 can get media from both computer 2 and 3 but 1 has not media to share.

I have no idea what could cause this problem as some times Computer 1 will talk to Computer 3 but it is rare. Computer 3 houses the network printer so Computer 1 needs to be able to talk to it.

 

[H2SO4]

Unfortunately, the diagram you painstakingly drew gets lost in the land of proportional font, so you might want to draw a small JPG instead next time.

Problems which are genuinely intermittent (the state is sometimes altered without anyone changing the configuration) are rarely simple to troubleshoot. This may not be simple either but here are some things to consider:

- Have you updated the NIC drivers on all of these machines?

- Does the problem stay specific to the 1-and-3 combination even if you move both of them around between different router ports? In other words, since 2 and 3 can always communicate, what happens if you swap the ports into which 1 and 2 are connected on the first router?

- Are you pinging by name or by IP?

- How does ping fail exactly? There are at least a couple different (common) error messages, and they mean vastly different things.

- Do machines 1 and 3 run firewalls? If so, disable them both completely long enough to test whether it makes any difference, even if you have to disconnect yourself from the internet for the duration of that test (you'd normally be safe anyway, because of the routers).

- If the problem lasts long enough, can you bring 1 and 3 together within crossover cable range, just to test whether it still happens even with the routers out of the picture?

- Can you swap the NICs temporarily? For example, swap the NICs between 1 and 2, or between 2 and 3, to see what effect that would have. Same with the cables.

I know it's a PITA to troubleshoot these home connectivity issues, but a process of elimination is frequently the only practical approach. Good luck with it.

 

[Whinis]

Let me get what I know out of the way first

- Have you updated the NIC drivers on all of these machines?

Yes

- Does the problem stay specific to the 1-and-3 combination even if you move both of them around between different router ports? In other words, since 2 and 3 can always communicate, what happens if you swap the ports into which 1 and 2 are connected on the first router?

Yes

- Are you pinging by name or by IP?

IP

- How does ping fail exactly? There are at least a couple different (common) error messages, and they mean vastly different things.

timeout

- Do machines 1 and 3 run firewalls? If so, disable them both completely long enough to test whether it makes any difference, even if you have to disconnect yourself from the internet for the duration of that test (you'd normally be safe anyway, because of the routers).

Yes, all computers run AVG internet security now here is the weird thing. I tried to disable both firewalls before and they talked for the first time since my first motherboard failure.(I have an asus motherboard and the built in Nic card died so I sent it off ever since they have refused to talk. I installed a replacement foxconn motherboard for the 2 weeks it took to repair and fresh installe of vista after every switch.) so I though that maybe it was the firewall and left it off to see on next reboot however they didn't talk anymore renable firewall and they talk again and next reboot don't now even disabling firewall does not work.

- If the problem lasts long enough, can you bring 1 and 3 together within crossover cable range, just to test whether it still happens even with the routers out of the picture?

Since Computer 1 is in the Network room I can definitely test that today get back to you with results.

Results: Can ping by address ( given by checking network adapter) but not by name and when typing name in explorer I get same error of can not find check spelling.

- Can you swap the NICs temporarily? For example, swap the NICs between 1 and 2, or between 2 and 3, to see what effect that would have. Same with the cables.

No, Computer 1 has a built in Nic




I have a hunch that it is something with Computer 3 though since nothing is showing up in network not even itself

....... and now it is??????

 

[H2SO4]

There may be more than one fundamental problem here. If I understand correctly, you were at first seeing some definite effect from disabling/enabling the firewall(s), except that effect stopped. Also, even though you can't ping by IP when going through the routers, you CAN ping by IP when they're connected by a crossover cable?

I'd suggest concentrating on the simple things first. Until everything can ping everything else by IP with the firewalls disabled everywhere, there's no point doing app-layer troubleshooting. Given the difference between crossover and thru-router behaviour, I'd suspect some type of hardware glitch, possibly on machine 3 like you said. It might be time to spend $20 on another NIC for that machine, just as a test. If it works, great. If not, you've got a spare NIC

Also, if you haven't already done so, grab wireshark and install it everywhere:

www.wireshark.org

Then, with the firewalls off and wireshark running concurrent captures on both 1 and 3, you can try pinging back and forth to see what packets get through, if any. It's not difficult: on 1, you're looking for incoming ICMP "echo" commands (ping) from 3, and vice versa.

 

[Whinis]

going on a hunch about why direct connection worked but router did not i rebooted my routers. After rebooting both of my routers ( Router 2 does not work like a router anymore a fact I forgot to mention. I use it has a wireless bridge in that it broadcast wireless g and all devices connect to it through wireless or wired get their ip from router 1.) and renewed the ip leases for all machines pings now work perfectly with a response of <1ms from computer 1 to computer 2 and computer 3. However i still get request timed out from computer 3 to computer 1 also when I tried to get into Mshome workgroup from explorer I got a response that mshome is not avalible right now.

Also the Nic is fairly new in Computer 3 since the onboard one died and then the nic I had died ( it was only like 1 mbs very old ). so I am on the third.

After running wireshark Computer 3 showed alot of what I consider bad responses in that it keeps sending netbios commands to computer 3 for no aperant reason and also when my router ask it what its ip address is from protcol Arp it replies what is my ip addres where as computer 1 replies 192.168.1.101its ip

 

[H2SO4]

So 3 still cannot ping 1 (by IP), even with all firewalls off? I'd suggest concentrating on that. If ping works in both directions via crossover cable, but not through the routers, then there's definite hardware-layer involvement there.

The "netbios" stuff might be what's called LM_Announce - it's sending out an "I'm here, please add me to your browse list (workgroup) if the user asks" information packet.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about its ARP response though.

 

[Whinis]

i am not sure what it is either

only happens when i ping

here is what it says

1081 252.943490 AsustekC_a3:68:b0 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.1.114? Tell 192.168.1.101

i guess it is asking the router who has so and so address the difference is that when

Computer 3 reads
1081 252.943490 AsustekC_a3:68:b0 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.1.1? Tell 192.168.1.114

basically says same thing except istead of asking for what i ping it ask who has the routers address ????

Computer 3 is not also repeating this message every second

634 283.482528 192.168.1.114 192.168.1.255 NBNS Name query NB MAIN<20>


I fixed the ping problem now although it is weird.....
if I disable both firewalls then no ping if I enable both then no ping but if is disable firewall on computer 1 but leave computer 3's firewall on it works ???? weird