Ram Questions

[Brettlarsen]

Can anyone help me with some Ram questions, I had 4 gigs of Kingston 1066 hyper X ram originally and it seemed fine, until I swapped it with some OCZ Reaper PC8500 SLI and I get heaps better frame rates and stuff, I Know nothing about the "art" of ram timing settings, can anyone advise a simple reason why the response with the sli ram is so much better?, and can I get that sort of response from boring old Hyper X with a few tweaks? any info would help.

 

[Brink]

Hi Brett,

This link will help explain about RAM timings, but it's best not to mess with overclocking RAM to get the most life out of them. Plus, you risk voiding any warranty you have with the RAM sticks, or worse yet frying them.

Understanding RAM Timings | Hardware Secrets

Most of today's RAM has a timing of 5-5-5-15. The lower the numbers, the faster the RAM is even if the MHz rating is the same. Expecially the last number. Of course, the higher the MHz the faster the RAM is.

Hope this helps,
Shawn

 

[Bubba]

Just damn Shawn. Your reply begs questions from me. I was told that the higher the FSB speed the more difficult it is to get the timings you are referencing down. However, the faster FSB speed makes up for the crappy CAS numbers. SO which is right? While I haven't looked long, I haven't seen any 1333 MHz RAM with 5-5-5-15, mine is 9-9-9-24.

Also the voltage thing. I'm running 8GB's or RAM. At the 1.5 volts that Patriot SAID it needed, my computer wouldn't even boot up past bios on a regular basis. I had to bump it (GRADUALLY) up to 1.85. I say gradually because when I finally broke through the script readers to a real engineer at EVGA that is what he told me to set it to. I was leery so I did it a step at a time. I called Patriot and the script readers were clueless and the real engineers never responded. Anyways, I got it to 1.85 and everything worked until I started the Game Crysis. I regularly crashed so being worried about throwing too much voltage to my RAM I backed it down a tad (after I finished the Crysis game lol). Well once again I started crashing. So, while not being the sharpest knife in the chandelier, yet having banged my head against a rock enough I'll stop banging, I bumped the voltage back up to 1.85. No more crashes (so far lol.)

I always seem to express myself in a way that pisses folks off so excuse me if I've once again done so, but what's the deal? I'm worried as hell that I'm going to fry my 8Gigs of RAM, but it doesn't work if i don't "over-clock" it to 1.85 volts. Also, is what I was told about RAM and the higher FSB speeds correct? Other than on this site I have not been able to get straight answers to straight questions. From the "official" people I get the party line, form others I get answers from folks with an ax to grind. Other than Mr VP of Symantec, I really feel that no one here has a financial interest in giving me bad advice or an ax to grind (well some may have an ax to grind but they are easy to spot). BIOS is a tricky animal. The sites I can find are out of date. It would seem that unless you luck into someone with exactly the same set up that no one is willing to go out on a limb and just SAY "this is what you need to do." To say that I've become a bit frustrated is an understatement. Yeah, I know I'm to stupid to do what I did, build a semi sophisticated gaming computer by myself, but I did it. How can i find out if i did it right?

You know I've been exploring this place religiously since I found it, but the purpose here is not to tell idiots like me how to build a computer, but to help folks with Vista problems and configurations. Where do I go from here? Where can I get help?

Dang, I wrote a novella again and probably in the wrong place. Sorry.

 

[Brink]

Hi Bubba,

The FSB is just how much MHz can flow. The actual MHz rating for the RAM is what counts. The timings are best to be compared with RAM sticks that have the same MHz rating. Timings sometimes helps compare between MHZ though. For example, some of the newer DDR3 RAM sticks have such high timing numbers, that they are just barely faster than the DDR2 Ram sticks that are close to the same MHz. Then you factor in the cost of DDR3 vs DDR2, and you get the idea.

This program CPU-Z may help you in determining what timings and voltage settings will work best for you.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

You might try resetting your CMOS and BIOS, to get the default timing and voltage back for you RAM to see if that helps.


Hope this helps,
Shawn

 

[Bubba]

I'll try the cupz thing but other than that, no lol it didn't help. When the setting were at default I BSOD'd constantly, most times before windows even booted up lol. Using the default CAS setting's was killing me too. Although they defaulted to the correct numbers for some reason it wouldn't work until I changed BIOS to manual and inputted the values, which were exactly the same as the default values lol 9-9-9-24. I also had to go to 2T on the clock and "unlinked" whatever that means. Oh well. Fry's will replace the MoBo and the CPU for two years (dollar for dollar, not part for part since parts decrease in value) so if I do fry it I'm still "safe." RAM is continuously dropping so if i fry this i can probably replace it at 1/4 the price lol. Meanwhile I'll just keep hunting and reading. I'm seriously thinking of getting A+ certified and then work on my MSCE and other MS certifications. LOL I'll then be able to work at Geek Squad.

EDIT: Oh I forgot to say Thanks dang it. So..........

Thanks Shawn.

 

[Brink]

No problem Bubba. Maybe you got a bad pare of sticks.

Well at at least you could get a employee discount on your computer stuff by working at Geek Squad.

 

[Bubba]

An Employee discount wouldn't matter, they don't sell anything worth buying as far as computer parts are concerned at Best Buys. Heck, I think the newest Video card they sell is ten years old and they sell no RAM, CPU's or motherboards. They DO have a cable or two and a 400 watt PSU. Yes I typed that correctly A 400 watt psu as in ONE.

Seems strange that a store that wants you to come in for computer repairs doesn't sell parts......... go figure.

 

[Brink]

LOL, yeah there stuff can be a bit dated. I like going to Frys myself too. I have one about 45 mins from me.

 

[Brettlarsen]

Hmmmm looks like my original question has been put on the back burner in this post, ah well will re-post with a differently arranged question.

 

[Trexgarth]

Hi Bubba...

I had the exact same problems as you and I still don't have a stable system
I think I have a Vista64/memory/nVidia driver problem

Vista feels like a very sensitive OS and when your not a BIOS and memory wiz it's very frustrating to set a system up and running.

So my question is: do you have a stable system at this point?

I yankt a memory stick out and got it running on 2 gb but it still freezes from time to time.

regards from a soon hairless man

 

[Brink]

Hmmmm looks like my original question has been put on the back burner in this post, ah well will re-post with a differently arranged question.

Brett,

You were not put on the back burner. We were just waiting for you to reply back on how it went with the replies we gave you. That's all.

Shawn

 

[Bubba]

Hi Bubba...

I had the exact same problems as you and I still don't have a stable system
I think I have a Vista64/memory/nVidia driver problem

Vista feels like a very sensitive OS and when your not a BIOS and memory wiz it's very frustrating to set a system up and running.

So my question is: do you have a stable system at this point?

I yankt a memory stick out and got it running on 2 gb but it still freezes from time to time.

regards from a soon hairless man

I haven't crashed since I upped the voltage on the RAM to 1.85. It's been 2-3 days with some serious time spent gaming so I think it' pretty stable now. Have you tried upping the RAM voltage any? Also did you get yours driver from the actual nVidia website rather than from one like EVGA or xFx?

Brett: What Shawn said.

 

[Trexgarth]

Hi Bubba...

I had the exact same problems as you and I still don't have a stable system
I think I have a Vista64/memory/nVidia driver problem

Vista feels like a very sensitive OS and when your not a BIOS and memory wiz it's very frustrating to set a system up and running.

So my question is: do you have a stable system at this point?

I yankt a memory stick out and got it running on 2 gb but it still freezes from time to time.

regards from a soon hairless man

I haven't crashed since I upped the voltage on the RAM to 1.85. It's been 2-3 days with some serious time spent gaming so I think it' pretty stable now. Have you tried upping the RAM voltage any? Also did you get yours driver from the actual nVidia website rather than from one like EVGA or xFx?

Brett: What Shawn said.

1.80 is what the Ramguy recommended, I have been up to 1.90 and it didn't make any difference. But this is, what I think, a kombination of Vista, Ram and nVidia drivers.
I have the latest drivers from nVidia (174.74), thinking of trying a beta driver.
Ordered a new set of sticks today: OCZ Platinum XTC DDR3 1600MHz 4GB Kit, w/two XTC Platinum 2GB CL7-7-7-24. I will try these and see if they are more stable, maybe with same settings as the corsair sticks.
Should maybe get some hair extensions to:D

 

[Bubba]

That's odd about your driver because mine works fine for everything except Crysis, (does anything run Crysis on full graphic settings), and we have very similar set ups. Let me know how the beta drivers work. I'm not changing anything unless I start having problems, but if I do and the beta works for you I'll try it.

I'm jealous of the new 1600 RAM. Are you going to run both sets together or just the OCZ? Heck if you are just going to use the OCZ, send the Corsair to Brink lol. When are you going to add another GX2 and run sli for quad mode lol?

Think I'd pass on the hair extensions, I hear those wild, rooster-tail high flourescent-orange Mohawks are coming back in style...............

 

[Trexgarth]

That's strange... can't you run Crysis in all in mode, with your rig? I ran it with the 4 gb in 1680 x 1050 and it were smoothe as a ...... haven't tried it with only 2 gb yet. The problem with my Corsair sticks were when I did a reboot I saw the colour blue for 5 or 6 times even when I tried to boot from dvd. That's why only 2 gb now.
I will run with OCZ only at first any way, trying to get a stable system. I don't know if it's possible to use 2x2 different types (or speed) memory.

Regarding 2 x 9800GX2.... why not 3? No... I'll wait for a while and see whats coming.
Lets see what the beta driver does to my temper and what new issues the new sticks will give me.

Mohawk...?
Didn't do them when they were in fashion, so I stick to the extensions.

 

[Bubba]

No I can't run Crysis in the highest video mode and it still would crash in the next to highest mode when I got to the ends of certain levels. You got it to work with all the video features tuned to the highest mode? I went to the Crysis site and didn't see where anyone could get it to do so.

Why not three nVidia 9800 Gx2's? Dude, two reasons lol. One GX2 is already the same as any other two graphics cards. When the 790 says it will take "4" gfx cards, it is referring to 2 GX2's. There are only three PCI-E slots on it; IE: you can put three regular cards in or two 9800GX2's. You have one, look at your motherboard. If you have it in the first slot you can see it overlaps not only the regular PCI slot but also the second PCI-E slot, it's that big. When you put 2 of them in there, the second one goes in the third PCI-E slot (by the edge of the board) and is so cramped, it encroaches on the connections for the front sound panel. The space between the two cards, when installed leaves only one of the four PCI slots open, and it is just barely open. You can barely stick a piece of paper between whatever is in that slot and the two 9800 GX2's on either side of it. In short, the two GX2's take up every bit of room on that motherboard.

Do you play COD4 online? if so let me know where and I'll come kill your dreadlocked butt lol.

 

[Scotteq]

Trex - Use Memtest to make sure the modules work individually/in pairs.


(1) MANUALLY set all timings to the manufacturer's certified. MANUALLY set the voltages to the max (or near max) of the manufacturer's rating.

If that works - (12 hours P95 Blend with no errors is a reasonable standard for a working overclock on a computer that's not n 24/7) - then consider lowering the voltage - still staying in the recommended range. If you change a setting, run P95 again.


If that doesn't work: (2) Bump the voltage to the North Bridge by one setting, and try again. So if the NB voltage is 1.3 then bump it to 1.31, or whatever the next higher setting is.

If that still doesn't work (3) Relax your timings a notch: For example, if your RAM is 4-4-4-12, then try 5-5-5-15.



In my case, I have 8GB of 800 Mhz OCZ Reapers at 4-4-4-12, 2T, 2.05volts. tRFC is 54. FSB is set to 1.33. DFI UT LP P35 T2R mobo. There was no need to loosen timings on my setup. Your Mileage probably Will Vary.

 

[BigEasy18]

Is there any safe way to know what you can get out of your RAM or is it just kinda trial by fire?

 

[Bubba]

Trex - Use Memtest to make sure the modules work individually/in pairs.


(1) MANUALLY set all timings to the manufacturer's certified. MANUALLY set the voltages to the max (or near max) of the manufacturer's rating.

If that works - (12 hours P95 Blend with no errors is a reasonable standard for a working overclock on a computer that's not n 24/7) - then consider lowering the voltage - still staying in the recommended range. If you change a setting, run P95 again.


If that doesn't work: (2) Bump the voltage to the North Bridge by one setting, and try again. So if the NB voltage is 1.3 then bump it to 1.31, or whatever the next higher setting is.

If that still doesn't work (3) Relax your timings a notch: For example, if your RAM is 4-4-4-12, then try 5-5-5-15.



In my case, I have 8GB of 800 Mhz OCZ Reapers at 4-4-4-12, 2T, 2.05volts. tRFC is 54. FSB is set to 1.33. DFI UT LP P35 T2R mobo. There was no need to loosen timings on my setup. Your Mileage probably Will Vary.

Wow, can you translate that to english lol, or in my case dummyaneese? Ok to be serious:

I set my timings and then the voltage to the manufacturers "max", (1.5 volt in my case.) It would not even boot up on a regular basis, so I gradually upped the voltage to the RAM. Although I didn't know I should, when it was working well I bumped it down, mainly because being ignorant I was uncomfortable overclocking my RAm, but is crashed. So I bumped the RAM back up to the 1.85 it worked on. It worked for 3 days and I thought I was good, but last night it crashed again.

When I say crashed, I mean everything locks up and I get a sound like you get when you hold the same key down for too long. LOL I could use my voice and make it for you, but I can't describe it any better in print than I just did. Anyways, when I cut the power to the machine, the only thing I can do, I reboot it in safe mode and check the event logs. The only thing Windows says about it is "the shut down at XXXXX (whatever time it was) was unexpected. Then it goes on with the typical unexpected shutdown errors that caused problems with the reboot. I wait a minute or two and then restart and it starts in normal mode.

So last time (last night) it crashed, I went to the BIOS and after checking the temperatures, I bumped not only the voltage to the RAM up to the next notch, but also the voltage to the FSB. I've been gaming all day and it has not crashed yet. Am I doing something really stupid by doing this trial and error crap? My other question would be, how do you bump the voltage to the north bridge? Or was that specific advice to Trex for his MoBo? Just damn, I didn't check before replying to see what he has. On my 790 I don't see an option for bridges..........

Big Easy: Your question is what I'm trying myself to figure out lol.

 

[Trexgarth]

Well I'm back... Got my new OCZ sticks yesterday and inserted them in one of the machines (yes I have 2 of them, 2 kids one each) and it worked at first boot. Keept the 1333 mhz setting and used timings as recommended for these sticks CL7-7-7-24. Will try some OC later when it has been running for a while.

Scotteq, thanks for the step by step to get the corsair sticks work, and I did get it to work...... for one reboot only. I think I did 8,9,12 reboots (well stopped counting after a while) and tweaks to bios, then I just gave up and yanked one stick out.
Ran memtest86 2.01 for 4 passes (individually/in pairs) and there were NO problems reported, I think these Corsair sticks has a problem with mobo/Vista. Have ordered another set of OCZ.
Now I have 8 gb of corsair and no were to put them

Bubba, do you have all Vista updates (sp1)? You could try 1066 mhz for your sticks, have been told that if you use all banks, the FSB will have problem at that speed (1333mhz). Try this explanation (it's not in dummyaneese, sorry
Unpredictable results with QUAD2X4096 and Gigabyte X38-DS5 - The Corsair Support Forums
But on the other hand the mobo should be able to handle 1600mhz, I don't know if that matters .
In your bios, at system voltage, you have grey, green and red values. Don't use the red ones! The north bridge and south bridge is called MCP and SPP in nVidia language, or was it the other way around...hmm.
You could update your bios, if you didn't already, and the firmware for your LG blu-ray. I had problems with mine.

This is a program checking your true cpu temp.
Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors - XtremeSystems Forums
This one puts some stress to your system so you can see if it's stable
http://www.ocbase.com/download.php?fileext=exe
Default settings will do.

Regarding all in on Crysis...I didn't have AL on 16x and I didn't play for more than 30 min. So.... you were right, I didn't go all in

COD4...Do you call my Gile suit for dreadlocks...I will put some ventilation in your mohawk with my 50 Cal :D.