Partition question.

[eddiebelfast]

Hi, My question is about placing the swap file on a new install.
I have until recently always used a Desktop as opposed to a Laptop and have always used small Hard drives.
I have got rid of my desktops and now use a laptop. The current drive is 100 gb and I have decided to replace it with a 500 gb .
My question is would there be any advantage partitioning with a 10 gb 1st part and then installing Vista as per normal but then directing the swap file to the 10 gb part?
cheers,
Eddie.

 

[LMiller7]

My question is would there be any advantage partitioning with a 10 gb 1st part and then installing Vista as per normal but then directing the swap file to the 10 gb part?

No. This would impair performance.

For best performance you want the pagefile as close as possible to your other files as this minimizes head movement. Having a separate partition makes sure that this will not be the case. There is something to be said for having the partition on a separate physical drive provided it is of comparable performance.

There is much misguided advice for placing the pagefile on a separate partition because it supposedly minimizes fragmentation. But pagefile fragmentation is rarely a serious issue, and in most cases it isn't an issue at all. This replaces a problem you don't have for a real one.

My standard recommendation regarding the pagefile: Unless you have a specific need and you understand what you are doing, leave the pagefile on system managed. Contrary to misguided advice to the contrary, this is not inefficient.

Edit: There is also the idea that the beginning of the drive is faster. And this does provide a better transfer rate. But under typical usage transfer rate is the least important factor in pagefile performance. You would be improving something that doesn't matter at the expense of something that does.

 

[townsbg]

Virtual memory (which is what the pagefile is for) is so slow that the only noticeable performance increase would be if you run it off of a solid state drive. Preferably you have enough real memory that the page file is barely used if at all. In that case it doesn't really matter where it is.

 

[eddiebelfast]

Thank you for both replies.

 

[townsbg]

No problem.

 

[MilesAhead]

Thank you for both replies.

the one thing you can do that's very simple, is to size the page file minimum size to something large enough you probably won't need to expand it. Then defrag it. This helps keep the partition that has the page file from becoming fragmented just because the OS made it a bit bigger to store some data.

There are dedicated page file defraggers. But since you have 4 GB ram you should have no problem. Turn off paging. Make sure pagefile.sys does not exist. If it does, delete it. Defrag the partition you want the page file to use. Set virtual memory to user control and set the initial size. I've done this on at least 5 machines. Checking the page file fragmentation months and months later, I've never seen it become fragmented. If you use large data sets, then it may not be for you. But typically I only run a few programs at a time and have no real need for paging... other than to keep the system from squawking.

 

[LMiller7]

the one thing you can do that's very simple, is to size the page file minimum size to something large enough you probably won't need to expand it.

That is what a system managed pagefile does, at least most of the time. If you have a heavy workload for your RAM size you may need to make manual adjustments. And you needn't be concerned about making it larger than necessary. This will not impair performance but only waste some disk space. Of course with an SSD that is often a problem.

The "System Managed" pagefile has been very much misunderstood and unjustly criticized. It is often thought that such a pagefile is being constantly resized according to current needs. This would have an impact on performance, if it happened. But under normal circumstances that doesn't happen. If the initial size, which is clearly shown in the configuration dialog, is adequate then resizing will never occur. With a reasonable RAM size such resizing would be a rare event. If you wish to check this all you need to do is monitor the pagefile size in Windows Explorer.

A system managed pagefile has a maximum size it can be expanded to, usually 3 times RAM size. But this is only for emergency use if the initial size should prove too small. This saves you from an application crash or worse that could happen if the commit limit is hit, the typical result of a too small pagefile. If expansion occurs the pagefile will revert to it's original size and fragmentation state after a reboot.

 

[MilesAhead]

The trouble is all this varies by Windows release. Vista did not mind if I ran with no paging and caching only boot files. W7 kept giving me OOM errors unless I gave it a page file that it didn't need. (Getting OOM when I had over a GB on standby.) The point is not to align my policies with the theoretical behavior of the OS. But to develop policies or tweaks, that work in all flavors. My page file gimmick worked from NT 4 all the way to W7 and I'll probably set it up that way on W8 when I get around to it.

The OP can take or leave my advice. I don't think his system will go belly up by trying it.

 

[eddiebelfast]

Gentlemen, as always your help/advice is greatly appreciated.
The advice from LMiller7 and MilesAhead applies to my original specs which no longer apply, which of course they had no way of knowing. I have spent some time trying to correct this situation but when I get to the " edit page " of the System specs all I am presented with is a blank page.
The original question applies to a laptop as I no longer have any Desktops.
So, until I can edit my System specs these are my current specs.

Acer Aspire 5315 ( Non standard ). Intel T7500, 2gb 667 ram, 100 gb Hitachi Sata ( to be replaced with a WD 500 gb ) Wireless N card.
No sarcasm intended: Before anybody asks why I am spending money on an oldish laptop, I was given this virtually unused Acer after ( used a couple of times when new but then kept in a cupboard until now ) fixing up a bicycle for another OAP.( not that I asked for any payment).
cheers,
Eddie
OAP, old age pensioner.

 

[townsbg]

By default I customize the pagefile size because Windows automatically sets it for 1.5 times the amount of real memory and the more memory you have to more space it takes up. IMO it is important to have enough memory to run anything that you need to. It is preferable to avoid using the pagefile since it is so much slower than real memory especially on a disk hard drive as compared to solid state drive. Windows will still use the pagefile however if you have enough real memory it primarily won't be used.

That leads me to your situation. 2 gb of ram is the bare minimum for modern versions of windows. On my desktop that's all I had and it was usually enough however like miles I would only run a few programs at a time and I would turn off unneeded processes. If you don't do either you will stretch the limit of your real memory which would lead you dangerously towards relying on the pagefile. In my experience users that didn't have enough ram for their everyday tasks would find their system to be incredibly slow all the time because windows is relying on the pagefile. My point is this, you have to have it but you don't want to use it. I agree that the location on the hard drive doesn't matter however I have no experience with defragging the pagefile. I had a friend tell me once that it doesn't help so I never did it. It certainly shouldn't hurt anything though. Unfortunately according to the specs I found on your laptop you can't have any more than 2 gb of ram. It also has weak processor by today's standards so you won't be able to use it for much more than web browsing, word processing, listening to music, etc. You can forget high end gaming, running advanced programs, or doing video editing.

 

[eddiebelfast]

By default I customize the pagefile size because Windows automatically sets it for 1.5 times the amount of real memory and the more memory you have to more space it takes up. IMO it is important to have enough memory to run anything that you need to. It is preferable to avoid using the pagefile since it is so much slower than real memory especially on a disk hard drive as compared to solid state drive. Windows will still use the pagefile however if you have enough real memory it primarily won't be used.

That leads me to your situation. 2 gb of ram is the bare minimum for modern versions of windows. On my desktop that's all I had and it was usually enough however like miles I would only run a few programs at a time and I would turn off unneeded processes. If you don't do either you will stretch the limit of your real memory which would lead you dangerously towards relying on the pagefile. In my experience users that didn't have enough ram for their everyday tasks would find their system to be incredibly slow all the time because windows is relying on the pagefile. My point is this, you have to have it but you don't want to use it. I agree that the location on the hard drive doesn't matter however I have no experience with defragging the pagefile. I had a friend tell me once that it doesn't help so I never did it. It certainly shouldn't hurt anything though. Unfortunately according to the specs I found on your laptop you can't have any more than 2 gb of ram. It also has weak processor by today's standards so you won't be able to use it for much more than web browsing, word processing, listening to music, etc. You can forget high end gaming, running advanced programs, or doing video editing.[/QUOT

As found in the above re- current specs: Acer Aspire 5315 ( Non standard ). Intel T7500, 2gb 667 ram, 100 gb Hitachi Sata ( to be replaced with a WD 500 gb ) Wireless N card.
This model will take 3 gb of ram.
I have been playing about with comps for approx 35 years. And still run a comp as back then when only one prog could be run at a time, I never have more than three tabs open in a browser even when I have 4gb of ram.
I don't run any games whatsoever.
I also strip out all non essential items and fine tune whatever OS I am using, be it Windows, Linux or mac.
I also defrag the PF.

 

[townsbg]

This model will take 3 gb of ram.

I saw 2 gb on 2 different sources. It sounds like you know what you are doing when it comes to optimizing resources.

 

[MilesAhead]

Windows editions below Pro typically have a min page file size of 16 MB when managed by the system. Easily subject to fragmentation, it's a good inducement to optimize via manual management.