Network & Internet... extremely slow issues

[AstaLaVista]

Guys, I am very PC-Challenged when it comes to Networking & Internet and I have 2 problems at the office that you may be able to help me with.

We have a small business package from AT&T (used to be bellsouth), one of those lines if a dedicated ADSL broadband, each line has a filter and we also have a Netopia ADSL router (motorola 3347-02-1006L) + linksys Gigabit 8 port switch.

There is 1 server (Windows 2000 Server OS w/SP4) and 3 workstations running XP Pro w/SP3 (2GB's of Ram all up to date with drivers and MS updates... I make sure of that). The server sits very close to my workstation as I have a KVM switch to adjust or make changes on it and to utilize only 1 monitor + kb/mouse.

This is the first issue we have: (Gibabit Ethernet adapters on workstations)

One of my partners claims that if my computer is off, the software we use to sell our products runs very fast on his computer but, as soon as I turn on my workstation and I load the software, his speeds show significant downtime (slowness?). Again, not being very knowledgeable at networking I find this to be annoying but illogical at the same time... am I wrong to think this? Is there something I can do to help this issue?

The other issue we have is: Internet slowing down (6MB ADSL line)

Our internet, for the most part, crawls almost to a halt for the working hours we are here (9 to 6 PM, Miami Area), if we do a speedtest, we barely get to 3MB but it feels like if we are on dial-up. The main problem is not downloading but surfing speed (if that makes any difference?), pages tend to open very slow and sometimes, we even have to click on the links twice to get the page started (from favorite links).

2 or 3 weeks ago I called and ragged on them about this issue and they told me that the router was the culprit and I would be receiving one the next day, but that only lasted for less than a day and then the speeds dropped again.

I'd just call AT&T and they say the reason is that we are using 1 dsl line for 3 people that are constantly surfing the internet and there is not enough bandwidth for the 3 of us, that adding another DSL line would help with that problem... is that true or was she just blowing smoke up my bunghole to try to sell me, yet, more junk?

For the most part, we clean the PC's every week, temporary internet files, temp folder, AV + Spyware/Malaware scans so I don't know what else to do to help us get a better surfing internet experience.

Would moving to Comcast business or some other ISP help us in any way or are they all pretty much the same?

Sorry for the long rant and thanks for any help or advice you can give me.

 

[MrNeeds]

Guys, I am very PC-Challenged when it comes to Networking & Internet and I have 2 problems at the office that you may be able to help me with.

We have a small business package from AT&T (used to be bellsouth), one of those lines if a dedicated ADSL broadband, each line has a filter and we also have a Netopia ADSL router (motorola 3347-02-1006L) + linksys Gigabit 8 port switch.

There is 1 server (Windows 2000 Server OS w/SP4) and 3 workstations running XP Pro w/SP3 (2GB's of Ram all up to date with drivers and MS updates... I make sure of that). The server sits very close to my workstation as I have a KVM switch to adjust or make changes on it and to utilize only 1 monitor + kb/mouse.

This is the first issue we have: (Gibabit Ethernet adapters on workstations)

One of my partners claims that if my computer is off, the software we use to sell our products runs very fast on his computer but, as soon as I turn on my workstation and I load the software, his speeds show significant downtime (slowness?). Again, not being very knowledgeable at networking I find this to be annoying but illogical at the same time... am I wrong to think this? Is there something I can do to help this issue?

The other issue we have is: Internet slowing down (6MB ADSL line)

Our internet, for the most part, crawls almost to a halt for the working hours we are here (9 to 6 PM, Miami Area), if we do a speedtest, we barely get to 3MB but it feels like if we are on dial-up. The main problem is not downloading but surfing speed (if that makes any difference?), pages tend to open very slow and sometimes, we even have to click on the links twice to get the page started (from favorite links).

2 or 3 weeks ago I called and ragged on them about this issue and they told me that the router was the culprit and I would be receiving one the next day, but that only lasted for less than a day and then the speeds dropped again.

I'd just call AT&T and they say the reason is that we are using 1 dsl line for 3 people that are constantly surfing the internet and there is not enough bandwidth for the 3 of us, that adding another DSL line would help with that problem... is that true or was she just blowing smoke up my bunghole to try to sell me, yet, more junk?

For the most part, we clean the PC's every week, temporary internet files, temp folder, AV + Spyware/Malaware scans so I don't know what else to do to help us get a better surfing internet experience.

Would moving to Comcast business or some other ISP help us in any way or are they all pretty much the same?

Sorry for the long rant and thanks for any help or advice you can give me.

you should have a look into getting business SDSL, ADSL chokes the upspeed to get maximum down speed, but with symmetrical DSL you wont have this issue, and your connection will prioritise over standard ADSL connections.
Also, the reason you get slow connections during the day is the same reason you get slow connections at home at peak internet times. Plenty of users choking the bandwidth of the ISP.
comcast may solve the issue, i have no idea, i believe they are a cable company, which means their upspeed isnt as limited as an adsl isp.

 

[AstaLaVista]

Thanks Mr. Needs, I'll call them back to see if they offer such a thing but I doubt it or if they do, it will probably be as expensive as going with a dedicated T1 line.

I'll talk to Comcast as well to see what they have to offer.

Do you have any thoughts on the network issue though?

 

[H2SO4]

...
This is the first issue we have: (Gibabit Ethernet adapters on workstations)

One of my partners claims that if my computer is off, the software we use to sell our products runs very fast on his computer but, as soon as I turn on my workstation and I load the software, his speeds show significant downtime (slowness?). Again, not being very knowledgeable at networking I find this to be annoying but illogical at the same time... am I wrong to think this? Is there something I can do to help this issue?

Can you provide more detail around the architecture of that app:

- Is it talking to the Win2K server?

- Does it require internet connectivity (while your colleague is experiencing slowdowns)?

- Does your machine have to be running the same app in order to slow down your colleague, or is the mere fact that it's on sufficient to slow him down? What happens if you boot and don't even log on but just sit on the ctrl-alt-del screen while he's testing?

- Are any of the other client computers running the same app, and are they affected by the fact that your machine is on/running the app?

The other issue we have is: Internet slowing down (6MB ADSL line)

Our internet, for the most part, crawls almost to a halt for the working hours we are here (9 to 6 PM, Miami Area), if we do a speedtest, we barely get to 3MB but it feels like if we are on dial-up. The main problem is not downloading but surfing speed (if that makes any difference?), pages tend to open very slow and sometimes, we even have to click on the links twice to get the page started (from favorite links).

That doesn't sound right at all. Are all client machines directly connected to the ADSL/router or are they accessing the internet through the server perhaps?

Is the same slowness evident from the server too?

 

[AstaLaVista]

Can you provide more detail around the architecture of that app:

I will sure try, this is a Managment system application that runs on the server. We sell Motorcycle parts & accessories and the software sits on the server, from here we use the point of sale and microfiche to get the part numbers of each item we sell.

- Is it talking to the Win2K server?

Each workstation will seek files from the server and, for the most part, we will all have the point of sale and microfiche open, although, we may not be using it at the same time, sometimes we do though. The installation of this app on the workstation is just a few files since we all need to go to the server to run both apps (pos & microfiche).


- Does it require internet connectivity (while your colleague is experiencing slowdowns)?

Well, this is the part that I am not sure, I would say IT DOES NOT because there have been times when the internet goes down and we still run the software program.

Now, being said that, I think that the server only has 1 ethernet cable hooked up to it and this cable goes to the router so it wouldn't surprise me if they are both combined somehow but I gotta double check this as I am not 100% sure since a friend of mine helped me connect all this.

The fact that it doesn't require much knowledge to run is why I can be called the IT of our office but if something major happens, I still have to call my friend to fix. since I like to learn more is why I am here asking the experts.


- Does your machine have to be running the same app in order to slow down your colleague, or is the mere fact that it's on sufficient to slow him down? What happens if you boot and don't even log on but just sit on the ctrl-alt-del screen while he's testing?

According to my partner, if the server is on and running, and even if the PC from my other partner is also on with both of them running the programs (pos & microfiche), his computer (and the other partner's PC) run the program very fast.

As soon as I turn my pc on and I open the same program & fiche, he says that is when he starts experiencing the slowing of his pc and this is the part that has me baffled.


- Are any of the other client computers running the same app, and are they affected by the fact that your machine is on/running the app?

3 worsktations (clients) and the only one affected is one, the other partner is very PC-Challenged so he may not even noticed if he is slowing down when mine is on.


-That doesn't sound right at all. Are all client machines directly connected to the ADSL/router or are they accessing the internet through the server perhaps?

As far as I know or remember, the cable that comes out of the wall is connected directly to the ADSL Netopia (motorola) router, from there, I have re routed another cable to the Gigabit 8-port switch and from there is where all the workstations (clients) get connected to the network/internet.


-Is the same slowness evident from the server too?

Hmmmm, very good question but since we hardly use it for anything more than just hosting the program, I wouldn't know. For the most part I don't even use the internet on it to avoid getting infected. I do run Norton on it and I have heard horror stories about Norton but it was the only AV app I found that would run on a 2k server...

Side note: What other AV program can I use that works on a 2k server that is not a HOG like Norton? Part of me thinks that this could be the culprit or am I totally wrong here!

I hope I have explained myself but I tend to confuse people more with my rants and lack of grammar/vocabulary. I do appreciate all the help in the matter though.

 

[Jeep Fan]

6mb should be more than sufficient bandwidth for only 3 workstations.

 

[H2SO4]

...

- Does your machine have to be running the same app in order to slow down your colleague, or is the mere fact that it's on sufficient to slow him down? What happens if you boot and don't even log on but just sit on the ctrl-alt-del screen while he's testing?

According to my partner, if the server is on and running, and even if the PC from my other partner is also on with both of them running the programs (pos & microfiche), his computer (and the other partner's PC) run the program very fast.

As soon as I turn my pc on and I open the same program & fiche, he says that is when he starts experiencing the slowing of his pc and this is the part that has me baffled.

This is very important, so I'm going to suggest you do a bit of testing:

- First, have your partner use the app on his PC while your machine is physically powered down. He should be able to declare to you that the performance is normal.

- While he's still using the app, boot your PC but do not log on to Windows. Let it just sit there on the ctrl-alt-del (logon screen).

- Ask your colleague whether his app response has plummeted as soon as your machine powered up. If not...

- Log on to your box but don't start the app yet. Leave it on the desktop for a few minutes and ask him whether his app response has been degraded yet. If not...

- Now start using the app on your PC. Presumably, he'll now be telling you that things are very slow for him, all-of-a-sudden.

The point of the exercise is to determine whether it's the app running on your PC that's slowing him down, which would suggest some type of back-end (server) database locking or contention issue, or whether your PC merely has to be powered up without the app even running to cause him problems. If it's the latter, it's possible that your switch might be suspect at a hardware level, but there are other tests that would need to be run first.

-That doesn't sound right at all. Are all client machines directly connected to the ADSL/router or are they accessing the internet through the server perhaps?

As far as I know or remember, the cable that comes out of the wall is connected directly to the ADSL Netopia (motorola) router, from there, I have re routed another cable to the Gigabit 8-port switch and from there is where all the workstations (clients) get connected to the network/internet.

Sounds like all machines directly access the internet through the router. In that case, your aim is to figure out whether the "slow internet" affects them all during peak hours, or whether there are one or more PCs which continue to surf without performance problems. Obviously, if there are some PCs which are always fast, the problem is somewhere on the slow machine(s), and not the link itself. Otherwise, if the slowness affects all machines concurrently, including the server, it's either the router (unlikely) or the level of service you get from the ISP.

-Is the same slowness evident from the server too?
...
Side note: What other AV program can I use that works on a 2k server that is not a HOG like Norton? Part of me thinks that this could be the culprit or am I totally wrong here!

I don't think AV is your problem. For starters, each machine appears individually connected to the internet through the router, so unless someone has configured all the browsers on all clients to use the server as a proxy (check in Tools, Internet Options, Connections, LAN Settings under IE - there should be no proxy configured), there is no way that the AV on the server could possibly be slowing down the client machines' internet browsing.

 

[AstaLaVista]

Thanks H2SO4, I'll check that out and comeback to answer each question.

 

[AstaLaVista]

This is very important, so I'm going to suggest you do a bit of testing:

- First, have your partner use the app on his PC while your machine is physically powered down. He should be able to declare to you that the performance is normal.

He is not to far away from me and I can see his monitor, with my PC powered down, his speeds almost double (seat of the pants sort of thing! ), there is no hesitation opening the different windows inside the program, looking for a special order is quick, running a report is almost inmediate, etc, etc.

- While he's still using the app, boot your PC but do not log on to Windows. Let it just sit there on the ctrl-alt-del (logon screen).
- Ask your colleague whether his app response has plummeted as soon as your machine powered up. If not...

Same as above.

- Log on to your box but don't start the app yet. Leave it on the desktop for a few minutes and ask him whether his app response has been degraded yet. If not...

No changes whatsoever on the speeds.

- Now start using the app on your PC. Presumably, he'll now be telling you that things are very slow for him, all-of-a-sudden.

Yep, I can see it myself, what used to be inmediate now hesitates for fractions of a second but enough to feel the annoyance. Reports now take more time than before. It feels like Lag when you are playing an online game.

The point of the exercise is to determine whether it's the app running on your PC that's slowing him down, which would suggest some type of back-end (server) database locking or contention issue, or whether your PC merely has to be powered up without the app even running to cause him problems. If it's the latter, it's possible that your switch might be suspect at a hardware level, but there are other tests that would need to be run first.

Well, we can surely determine that it is in fact the app running on my PC the one causing the commotion.

Sounds like all machines directly access the internet through the router. In that case, your aim is to figure out whether the "slow internet" affects them all during peak hours, or whether there are one or more PCs which continue to surf without performance problems. Obviously, if there are some PCs which are always fast, the problem is somewhere on the slow machine(s), and not the link itself. Otherwise, if the slowness affects all machines concurrently, including the server, it's either the router (unlikely) or the level of service you get from the ISP.

All 3 machines slow down tremendously, not all the time but, when it happens, it happens to all of us. I almost never use the internet on the server unless I am doing a Win 2K update as I am trying to avoid getting hit by a virus or worm or whatever pesky animal may want to come in to the server.

I don't think AV is your problem. For starters, each machine appears individually connected to the internet through the router, so unless someone has configured all the browsers on all clients to use the server as a proxy (check in Tools, Internet Options, Connections, LAN Settings under IE - there should be no proxy configured), there is no way that the AV on the server could possibly be slowing down the client machines' internet browsing.

2 of us use Firefox and not IE but still, there is no proxie configured in any of the 3 machines either on FF or IE, I just double checked that.

This grasshopper is ready to proceed Master... :D

 

[H2SO4]

...Yep, I can see it myself, what used to be inmediate now hesitates for fractions of a second but enough to feel the annoyance. Reports now take more time than before. It feels like Lag when you are playing an online game.

Well, we can surely determine that it is in fact the app running on my PC the one causing the commotion.

Well, at least you can be confident that the two problems are unrelated because this first one has a very specific trigger - you starting to use your copy of the app.

To be honest, this is a messy problem which could be difficult to troubleshoot even from the console of the server, let alone through a web forum, but if you're patient and keen we can probably find out more. In no particular order, it might be:

a) The server hardware is underpowered. One user is about all it can handle, and a second one breaks the camel's back. If this is the case, then your colleague would have just as much effect on you as your app has on him. Is that true, or does your app always work fast irrespective of who starts first or what he's doing?

b) The problem is on your colleague's computer. If you have a 3rd client machine running the app, try testing whether that has the same effect on your colleague as you do. In other words, start the app on the 3rd client box (but not your machine) and watch what happens to your colleague's response times.

c) Your app is doing some type of additional processing task in the background which you've forgotten about, but it's causing a lot more work for the server than your realise. The 3rd client should be just as affected as your colleague. Can you test what happens to the 3rd client when your app is running?

I can suggest more specific tests based on answers to those questions.

...
All 3 machines slow down tremendously, not all the time but, when it happens, it happens to all of us. I almost never use the internet on the server unless I am doing a Win 2K update as I am trying to avoid getting hit by a virus or worm or whatever pesky animal may want to come in to the server.
...
2 of us use Firefox and not IE but still, there is no proxie configured in any of the 3 machines either on FF or IE, I just double checked that.

This grasshopper is ready to proceed Master... :D

There's grasshoppers involved? That changes everything

Actually, this second issue seems relatively cut 'n' dried. Since all (4?) machines access the internet independently (they don't rely on each other for internet access), and since the "slow" seems to affect all of them at the same time, usually during peak work periods, the only common factors are:

- The ISP and their level of service. Their links may be unable to meet the peak demand, or perhaps what you're paying them doesn't meet their requirements for better service.

OR

- The router or switch could be broken in some subtle way which manifests itself as bad performance under load. That's not entirely unheard of. Using a borrowed router/switch for a day should help to rule that out.

 

[AstaLaVista]

Well, at least you can be confident that the two problems are unrelated because this first one has a very specific trigger - you starting to use your copy of the app.

To be honest, this is a messy problem which could be difficult to troubleshoot even from the console of the server, let alone through a web forum, but if you're patient and keen we can probably find out more. In no particular order, it might be:

a) The server hardware is underpowered. One user is about all it can handle, and a second one breaks the camel's back. If this is the case, then your colleague would have just as much effect on you as your app has on him. Is that true, or does your app always work fast irrespective of who starts first or what he's doing?

I have not really tested this but, at times, I do find my pc lacking speed on the app but I suspect is because I am doing some other stuff at the time (downloading a file, Outlook hogging all my ram, video editing, etc, etc,) and not necessarily because my partner is using his... I am going to have to test this scenario further.

b) The problem is on your colleague's computer. If you have a 3rd client machine running the app, try testing whether that has the same effect on your colleague as you do. In other words, start the app on the 3rd client box (but not your machine) and watch what happens to your colleague's response times.

Hmm, ok, this is getting a little harder to understand but, I will try... when you say a third client machine, do you mean is there another using on another computer using the same app? if that is what you mean, the answer is yes, there are 3 workstations (3 partners) using the same app during the day.
The 3rd partner is a bit PC-Challenged so he may have not noticed anything but, I will try to do this test tomorrow and post back.

c) Your app is doing some type of additional processing task in the background which you've forgotten about, but it's causing a lot more work for the server than your realise. The 3rd client should be just as affected as your colleague. Can you test what happens to the 3rd client when your app is running?

Again, I will try to test this tomorrow but, for the most part, I don't do big reports on this app when we are all working, I usually leave it for late Friday to do so and no one else is here.

Actually, this second issue seems relatively cut 'n' dried. Since all (4?) machines access the internet independently (they don't rely on each other for internet access), and since the "slow" seems to affect all of them at the same time, usually during peak work periods, the only common factors are:

- The ISP and their level of service. Their links may be unable to meet the peak demand, or perhaps what you're paying them doesn't meet their requirements for better service.

OR

- The router or switch could be broken in some subtle way which manifests itself as bad performance under load. That's not entirely unheard of. Using a borrowed router/switch for a day should help to rule that out.

Well, the router was an issue and they supplied me with a new one and it seemed to work much, much better but that only lasted for less than 24 hours.

Since this is an ADSL type router, I can't easily test it with another one (ie: my home router or my partner's home router) since this router needs the phone line cord connected to the back of it and ours don't. I guess we are limited because of it.