Paging File - why do i need it?

fieseler

fieseler

Vista Guru
I recently bought an expensive new 1tb hdd & bought another 4gb of ram. I decided to turn of the paging file so that it saves wear & tear on my hdd & have had no problems whatsoever.

Is there any disadvantage to having the paging file turned off? I heard that it mirrors the amount of ram you have, so mine was 8gb is this true? Also, i know vista only allows 32 bit apps to access 2gb of ram, but if i have a paging file, would windows allow 32 bit apps to use 2gb of ram as well as extra space in the paging file? Or does it only allow 2gb of memory ram or otherwise?

thanks

Darren
 
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fieseler,

The paging file is not just virtual memory. It allows the OS to swap application data that is not being used out of physical memory so more physical memory is available to applications that need it. I see no good reason to turn paging off and a lot of good reason to leave it turned on.

In Vista, by default, the paging file size is dynamic and handled by the system. Unless you have a specific reason to change that, the default setting is appropriate.

Scott
 

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Hi Darren,

Whilst it is certainly true that you can disable the Paging File, it is something that I don't recommend doing. Vista, in common with previous versions of Windows, is actually designed to operate with a Paging File (AKA Swap File). By disabling it, you are forcing ALL programs running, be they background processes such as your AV program AND your foreground programs such as Excel (or whatever program(s) you run) to reside solely in RAM. At some stage, although you say you haven't yet, you are going to run into problems because of this. If you edit digital photos, you are probably aware that this can use your physical memory like it's going out of fashion. In this instance, having a disabled Paging File can cause your system speed to drop down to a crawl. Enabling the Paging File and leaving it using the 'System Managed' setting enables your system to make use of its RAM more effectively. A lot of programs run as background processes, and some, but not all, occupy both sections of the RAM and, providing it is enabled, the Paging File (this is only a temporary storage area, programs cannot actually execute here). It is only when these programs are invoked, such as when running Windows Update, that they actually need to occupy your RAM. At this time, data in your RAM which is currently not being used, is paged or swapped out to the file on your hdd to make room for the program that needs the space. When that data needs to be accessed again, it is simply moved back in to RAM and other data not currently required is paged out. If you don't want to have a Paging File on your new hdd, then I suggest that you install another hdd (20-30GB should be an ample size), and use that as a dedicated drive solely for the use of your Page File.
Dwarf
 

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After I maxed out my RAM, my hard drive is pretty silent except when I am actively loading a program into memory. I don't think my computer is using the paging file all that much anymore.
 

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All these responses are true. But, as you have discovered if you only run a couple of apps at a time or run small apps then you don't need a paging file. I have a Dell laptop with 4 Gigs of memory that all it really does is cruise the net and run MS Money. It runs fine with no paging file. If you ever run an app that won't fit in memory you will get an out of memory error and you'll have to re-enable the paging file and reboot.

The problem I see with Vistas paging file is that it's deleted every time you shutdown. Then when you start up again it's recreated. Well, that's a great way to fragment the paging file (which will slow down the system). There is a way to fix it but then you can't have vista manage the paging file so I just turned it off.

32 bit apps can only use 2Gigs of memory. Paging doesn't come into the equation at all.
 

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mreaves said:
32 bit apps can only use 2Gigs of memory. Paging doesn't come into the equation at all.
Click to expand...
Paging does come into play with 32-bit apps. They get moved in and out of physical memory just like 64-bit apps would.

There is no good reason for the average user to turn off paging on a 32-bit Vista system. Certainly the idea of saving wear and tear on a hard drive makes no sense at all.

S-
 

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mreaves said:
The problem I see with Vistas paging file is that it's deleted every time you shutdown. Then when you start up again it's recreated. Well, that's a great way to fragment the paging file (which will slow down the system). There is a way to fix it but then you can't have vista manage the paging file so I just turned it off.

32 bit apps can only use 2Gigs of memory. Paging doesn't come into the equation at all.
Click to expand...

Vista will only delete the paging file on reboot if you explicitly set the registry option forcing it todo so also 32bit can address more than 2gb of memory, physical or swap.


The paging file is very important on every windows OS because it swaps out all the junk it doesnt need to use, You can check the pagefile usage under the performance tab in task-manager. My comp has swaped out 1600M of junk it doesn't need and thats memory I could use for more important tasks like compiling, games or VTx/AMD-V Operating Systems...

I guess its just preference if you want to use the paging file or not but I have found Vista gets a huge performance increase using the swap than without one.
 

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dmex said:
...also 32bit can address more than 2gb of memory, physical or swap.
Click to expand...
dmex,

32-bit what? OS or application? It's well known that Vista x32 can address 4GB of RAM so I am assuming you meant applications.

By default, Vista x32 gives user applications the lower 2GB of virtual address space while the upper 2GB of virtual address space is reserved for system (kernel) use. Most 32-bit applications would not know what to do with a larger virtual address space and would not take advantage of it. To increase that to a maximum of 3GB of user virtual address space, one must issue this command from a administrator level cmd window:

bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 3072

To take advantage of this extra virtual address space, an application must be specifically coded for it. And not many are.....

The bad thing about this is that the system (kernel) is then allocated a 1GB virtual address space. Not all system level code works well in that smaller address space.

S-
 

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The Vista service that organises Page File useage is much more comprehensive and effective than that in previous versions of Windows. I recommend that you leave the settings alone and let the system manage them as it sees fit. The only change I would recommend is to place the Paging File on a separate drive if you have one available, otherwise I see no need to alter anything. As regards deleting the Paging File on shutdown, that is a setting which is beneficial for those who use their systems for confidential work. The vast majority of users don't fall in to this category, and indeed the default setting in the registry is for this deletion to be disabled. Check the following location to see what your current setting is.
Dwarf

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]

'ClearPageFileAtShutdown' 0=disabled (default), 1=enabled
 
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The Paging File is best left enabled. What i'd recommend, though, is to manually configure the Page File. Rather than leaving it to dynamically change/modify, try do the following:

Minimum Size = 1.5x RAM (i.e 2GB of RAM = 1.5x2048 = 3072MB)
Maximum Size = 2x RAM (i.e 2GB of RAM = 2.0x2048 = 4096MB)

So multiply your RAM by 1.5 (one and a half) for the minimum page file and multiply your RAM by 2.0 (two :p) for the maximum page file.

I've been using this combination for the longest time and it definitely has some performance gain...not necessarily in FPS, but overall system performance.

r2rX :D
 
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mreaves said:
The problem I see with Vistas paging file is that it's deleted every time you shutdown. Then when you start up again it's recreated.
Click to expand...
That would be a backward step from earlier Windows versions I just can't see MS making. Granted the contents may be lost, but they're constantly changing anyway and some is in RAM so automatically lost on powerdown.

Win reserves a minimum size paging file initially based on your RAM size but adjusted to suit your system's PF usage history, and increases it if necessary. If you want to really ensure the pf doesn't ever get fragmented, track your pf usage under worst-case conditions and set your own minimum to a higher value. But I strongly advise leaving the maximum open or at a ridiculously high value (say 20Gb) to avoid any possible hiccups.

With two physical drives it may help performance to set up a paging file on each; Win will use the most convenient at the time. I have 3Gb minimums on C: (the Win partition) and F: (the second drive).

[url=http://vistahelp.blogspot.com/2007/02/tweaking-vista-visual-effects.html]Vista Help[/url] said:
Insufficiently large paging files on the other hand, will hinder the performance of Windows Vista, which uses a technology called SuperFetch to store boot information, Graphic User Interface (GUI) data, and other essentials in the paging file(s) between work sessions. It has been found that an overly small paging file can also cause GUI mishaps, especially at higher screen resolutions.
Click to expand...
 
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