Norton Ghost and X64 troubles

T

tomkat2006

Member
I have Vista x64 with 8GB DDR 2 ram, 2x8800GTX cards, 4 hard drives (2x500gb, 1x150gb and 1 raptor 32gb OS).

I back up daily, and yesterday encountered a problem requiring a restore. Since System Restore is useless as it didnt save my "create a restore point" I decided to go ahead with my daily Ghost backup (v12.0 used).

Hell broke loose. Ghost's always worked fine under XP but Im writing this article for any suggestions on X64 (if its even the problem).

You see, when booting from the Ghost CD, what usually happens are one of 2 things:

1) The Symantec page wont even load, the PC will give a BSOD error message until I remove all but 2GB RAM, then Symantec loads etc

2) When RAM removed, Symantec loads, finds the restore point, restores the drive. Then with around 20 seconds to go I get a BSOD (same one as before). Try booting the PC and for a split second you get the BSOD and it restarts.
If you try loading the CD again, you get the BSOD. The only way to get around the BSOD (and to start the whole process again) is to PHYSICALLY remove the hard drive you reinstalled on, format it with a different computer, plug it back in and start over.

This was mental!

I restored onto a (newly purchased) Raptor drive. No idea what the problem is. Does anyone recommend any new software to backup a whole PC (quickly) and possibly retore itself within Windows, or ways around the problems above?

Any help/advice appreciated.
With thanks
 

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System One

Could I ask what exactly was the problem to start of with. I understand that you back up daily and this must be a requirement of your specific situation. But 'closing the gate after the bull has bolted' is not the cure. BSOD on such a quick boot sugests to me that there is something extremly wrong. What MOB do you have and what is the RAM exactly? Also when you say the HD has to be removed and formated on another computer does this mean that you have to instal a new MBR ? (new MBR needed from another computer - Virus ?) So in the Bios do you have the oportunity to warn or virus protect HD ?
Sorry questions seem a little deep and outside of your initial request but I do think we need to dive a little deeper into this problem.

regards, Steve. M.
 

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System One

Hi Steve thanks for the reply. The motherboard is an Asus p5m32-e
RAM are 4x2GB sticks, Corsair 800mhz

I have to remove the HD the OS was on and format in another PC simply because even booting from the Vista CD, Norton CD, or anything causes a BSOD when plugged in (disabling in BIOS doesnt work), no format utilities are on the BIOS for the HD. A new MBR would be automatically installed from the new Vista installation after reformatting.

The original problem was I deleted the driverstore contents on system for more space, this rendered a flash driver undiscoverable so choose to restore the PC.
 

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tomkat2006,

Ok, so boot from a CD and the system BSOD with the HD present as Master (asuming it is a E/IDE Drive), AND you have 8 Gig RAM. ?

I know why is he asking this again, well I have tried to understand your problem BUT you have at the moment talked about (as I see it) three problems. When problems arise it usally an acumilation of exsisting problems that indipendatly on their own are just about alright, but combined they cause a serious headache. So please can we go back to the begining ?

MotherBoard - Asus P5M32-E, (which I can not find on the ASUS site ?)
What CPU?
Memory is ? I got Corsair 800mhz ?

Secondly, MBR on a HD is an area that the OS will construct AND a virus COULD inhabite, I understand that your BIOS has no facilities for a HD (install, format...) but does it have a section like 'Virus Warning' This can be used for the BIOS to monitor the MBR on the HD and if anything writes to that area a "beep" will sound. Of course if you install a new HD and format, initilise and make partition active this will be writing to the MBR and consequently cause a "beep". Having to take the HD to another system to format it worries me. Also you say disabling in BOIS - the HD - could not nessecaraly indicate that the system does not look at the HD and the read the MBR. So if Virus infected OR corrupted a BSOD is indeed inevitable.

Memory. Why do you have to remove memory to make the system bootable ?
This is not a stupid question but a question of Do you remove memory to make the system bootable because of other problems that manifest them selves. Because when you have no problems the system boots with 8 mem present. So is this not a problem caused by a problem. !

Please be paitent because we solve this problem.

Originaly you "deleted" the "driverstore" contents.
What is the "driverstore" ?
And when you say "deleted" do you mean deleted OR un-installed. ?

Also if a problem has always exsisted on this system a 'restore' will not fix it. Because the problem is still there on your backups.

Booting from the original Vista CD (never mind about Norton CD) and system BSOD is an indication of a clear problem, I KNOW you have found this out but just a minuite,
Was this the CD that you originaly installed the OS from ?
IF the answer is YES then we know that MOB, MEM, HD, CD Drive, GFX Card.... Work, But that something has indeed changed and the system does not like it. Yet again this moves me towards the HD and it's MBR or it boot block information - Virus.

I know I waffle a little but I am trying to convey my train of thoughts to you.

Sorry another thought, Is the version of Norton compatable with the Hardware that you have, Dual CPU and more that 4 gig of RAM. You do say it boots with 4gig but gets a BSOD eventualy.......Also with HD removed ( or reformated on another sytem) ......Sounds like to me Norton is NOT compatable with your system.

regards SteveM.
 

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System One

tomkat2006, sorry your having such problems.

For starters I avoid all products with the symantec lable and have for about 3 years. A better and more versitle solution is acronis true image home 11. Since you seem to have your system up and running I would get a copy and image ASAP.

As for you BSOD problems I belive you have either a defective harddrive or a bad stick of memory. Other hardware issues can lead to the same situation but to be sure you should download, and create a Hirens diagnostic disk and run a complete check of your complete system. You should also get MemTest 86 and run it as well as it is a more robust test of your systems RAM and "any" failures detected should be taken very seriously.

If you chose to run these free utilities please post back what you find. If your hardware passes all the test then we should look elsewhere to find the problem.

Good luck.
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    My Ever Changing Whim!
    CPU
    Intel Core 2 Quad 9650
    Motherboard
    Intel DQ35JO
    Memory
    6GB Corsair DDR2 800
    Graphics card(s)
    ASUS 9800GT Ultimate
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    19 inch Sceptre 19 inch Acer
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    1 320GB Seagate SATA 1 250GB Western Digital SATA 1 200GB Maxtor SATA 2x160GB Western Digitals SATA 1 320GB Seagate External 1 120GB Western Digital External 1 80GB Westen Digital External 1 4GB Crucial Flash Drive for Ready Boost
    PSU
    600watt Fortron Source
    Case
    Antec
    Cooling
    Fresh Air
    Mouse
    Razer Diamondback
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonamic 4000
    Other Info
    My main rig runs Vista Ultimate or Server 2008. Depending on which Acronis image I decide to load.
mobo - p5n32-e
ram - Play.com (UK) : Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C5 / 4GB PC2-6400 / DDR2 800MHz XMS2 Dual Channel Memory : PC - Free Delivery


the hard drive is a sata (or satan as I call it!), I tried bios allowing it as the master (as it originally was), no go, same prob, tried changing cables, different sata port, the OLY way I could boot from a cd/dvd again was to completely format the drive.

cpu is a intel qx6850 @3 ghz

I have to remove the ram, else I get a (driver not less than equal) error, this also occurs during setup of vista, its apparently because the OS doesnt like moer than 2GB or somesuch.

I believe the bios has a virus utility, but this problem happened on a fairly (week?) fresh install so a virus would have been pretty unlucky.

Driverstore. I came across a site to "slim down vista" by freeing space, it said to delete the files here, they're drivers held by vista in backup, saved about 1.5gb space but was moer problematic than it helped.

I deleted the contents of this folder and not the folder itself.

Ghost has worked with thie setup before, the only change was that the vista boot loader 1.2.1 (?) was on a different hard drive whereas the OS was on another one again, this pressumably is why I didnt have a problem then.

Yes its the same vista CD.

With the HD vista loader, when I reinstall vista I have to unplug all hard drives bar the one I want the OS on, else I find it installs boot info on a spearate disk to the OS one. So, unplug all HD's so that the raptor is only showing, install vista, plug in hard drives (all sata), everything's done.

Norton has worked before, this version is v14 which is the latest, I can only assume its fine for x64.

Hope this added info helps, and thank you for responding.
Dave
 

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System One

tomkat2006 said:
hey, wouldnt have thought its the hard drive or ram, as both are barely a month old
Click to expand...

Does the 'Satan' drive have a little jumper on it ?
It is little ! a tiny little thing that if you look at the drive for info it enables/disables 3gig per second transfer rate. = is it on or off ?

My system was installed with Vista Home Edition 64 bit, with 4gig ram, 2 x HD SATAII, and all went exactly to plan installing to the 'boot' drive and not to the other. So Vista does not mind the amount of mem you have, I mean even XP can see 3gig ! So maybe you do have a mem problem AS well as the apparent HD problem.

Cure..........................................
If you boot cdrom into vista to install what fails with 4gig mem installed ?
You said it works with only 2 gig, have you tried the 2 gig that you removed ?
Inother words - 2gig works with Vista install.
2 gig removed take and replace with 2 gig that is known to work.
In one sense it would be nice if this now fails !
If it does you now have to swap 1 gig with a known working 1 gig if works try with the other suspect fault 1 gig.
 

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System One

tomkat2006 said:
Norton has worked before, this version is v14 which is the latest, I can only assume its fine for x64.

Dave
Click to expand...

Assuming Norton is fine for x64 is NOT a good assumption.

Looking on Nortons site Norton Ghost 14.0 does NOT state that it works for Vista 64 bit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you then look at Norton V2.0 it clearly states Vista 64 bit.

I must quite agree with joel406 (and myself this is personal) I hate Synmantec products. Except for 'gdisk' which is a far better and much more comprehensive 'fdisk' command line tool for Hard Disks. ....................

"SATAN" maybe you could look at Satan using 'gdisk' !
Have you used this before ?
If not boot from floopy with gdisk on type gdisk at command line and all the info is there.
 

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System One

There is no such thing as a "SATA II" drive. There are SATA 1.5Gb/s and SATA 3.0Gb/s drives. There will be SATA 6.0Gb/s drives at some point too.

Regardless, what does that have to with this problem? The jumper is only going to impact performance, not compatibility or reliability.

S-
 

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB) 1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
SATA 1.5 Gbit/s
First-generation SATA interfaces, also known as SATA/150 or unofficially as SATA 1, communicate at a rate of 1.5 gigabits per second (Gbit/s).

[edit] SATA II Misnomer
The 3.0 Gbit/s specification has been widely referred to as "Serial ATA II" ("SATA II" or "SATA2"), contrary to the wishes of the Serial ATA International Organization (SATA-IO) which defines the standard. SATA II was originally the name of a committee defining updated SATA standards, of which the 3 Gbit/s standard was just one. However since it was among the most prominent features defined by the former SATA II committee, the name SATA II became synonymous with the 3 Gbit/s standard, so the group has since changed names to the Serial ATA International Organization, or SATA-IO, to avoid further confusion.

[edit] SATA 6.0 Gbit/s
SATA's roadmap includes plans for a 6.0 Gbit/s standard. In current PCs, SATA 3.0 Gbit/s already greatly exceeds the sustainable (non-burst) transfer rate of even the fastest hard disks. The 6.0 Gbit/s standard is useful right now in combination with port multipliers, which allow multiple drives to be connected to a single Serial ATA port, thus sharing the port's bandwidth with multiple drives.[5] Solid-state drives such as RAM disks may also one day make use of the faster transfer rate.

And yes it is only going to impact performance. But it also depends on the LBA setting used in the BIOS if this is also writen to the MBR and there is a conflict or an incorrect write it a'int going to work !
 

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System One

SATA 1.5 Gbit/s and SATA 3 Gbit/s
SATA is designed to be backward and forward compatible with future revisions of the SATA standard.

According to the hard drive manufacturer Maxtor, motherboard host controllers using the VIA and SIS chipsets VT8237, VT8237R, VT6420, VT6421L, SIS760, SIS964 found on the ECS 755-A2 which was manufactured in 2003, do not support SATA 3 Gbit/s drives. To address interoperability problems, the largest hard drive manufacturer Seagate/Maxtor have added a user-accessible jumper-switch known as the Force 150, to switch between 150 MB/s and 300 MB/s operation.[3] Users with a SATA 1.5 Gbit/s motherboard with one of the listed chipsets should either buy an ordinary SATA 1.5 Gbit/s hard disk, buy a SATA 3 Gbit/s hard disk with the user-accessible jumper, or buy a PCI or PCI-E card to add full SATA 3 Gbit/s capability and compatibility. Western Digital uses jumper setting called "OPT1 Enabled" to force 150 MB/s data transfer speed


Just thought this might also be helpfull in clearing any arguments arising on SATA Drives.
 

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System One

SteveM said:
And yes it is only going to impact performance. But it also depends on the LBA setting used in the BIOS if this is also writen to the MBR and there is a conflict or an incorrect write it a'int going to work !
Click to expand...
Steve,

Drive speed and bus potential have nothing to do with LBA settings. That's a drive size issue. The motherboard in question here has no issues supporting SATA 1.5 Gbit/s and SATA 3 Gbit/s drives. So the jumper setting is not important, does not depend on any LBA BIOS setting, and has nothing to do with the problem the OP is having.

S-
 

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB) 1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
sidewinder said:
SteveM said:
And yes it is only going to impact performance. But it also depends on the LBA setting used in the BIOS if this is also writen to the MBR and there is a conflict or an incorrect write it a'int going to work !
Click to expand...
Steve,

Drive speed and bus potential have nothing to do with LBA settings. That's a drive size issue. The motherboard in question here has no issues supporting SATA 1.5 Gbit/s and SATA 3 Gbit/s drives. So the jumper setting is not important, does not depend on any LBA BIOS setting, and has nothing to do with the problem the OP is having.

S-
Click to expand...

Right like I said lets get away from the SATA debate.... But you still persist, !

Some operating systems do not require LBA because they simply distrust and ignore the geometry reported by BIOS. Among these operating systems are BSD, GNU/LINUX, Mac osX, OS/2 and ReactOS. Operating systems that are sensitive to BIOS-reported geometry include DOS, Windows NT kernel (NT, 2000, XP, Vista) and Solaris. So an incorrect LBA would cause the OS (Vista) to incorrectly fetch data from the Drive.:geek:

So the OS is having a problem is it ?
And EXACTLY what is that problem ?
BSOD on load ?
On a Vista CD - Yes.
On a Norton CD - Yes.
When Drive is Initilized on a foregn system - No.
Hmmmmmmm Boot Block and drive acess. ?

Possible Multi Boot problem - see previous message.
 

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System One

I thought sata drives didnt have a jumper, so cant comment on that. The RAM issue still happenes with 2 different brands of ram, so its not faulty, Ive tried all configs, thinking its a faulty slot, but only 2gb installed will get me anywhere (these are 1x2gb sticks)
 

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tomkat2006 said:
I thought sata drives didnt have a jumper, so cant comment on that. The RAM issue still happenes with 2 different brands of ram, so its not faulty, Ive tried all configs, thinking its a faulty slot, but only 2gb installed will get me anywhere (these are 1x2gb sticks)
Click to expand...

Hi tomkat2006.

So removing your 8gig, and inserting 2 x 1 gig (new source) the same happens ?
Is all of this happing with your XP disk present ?
 

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System One

I only have 2GB sticks, so yes,only having one 2gb stick inserted will run the install cd no probs with vista x64, add anymore than 2gb and I get the bsod.
If 4x1GB sticks would work, this total renders a 64bit unit uselsss really :s
 

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