User Account: Can't change type or delete

imanuelae · Oct 29, 2010

Hello all,

Totally baffled, twice now I've set up parental controls for my daughter but she ends up using an admin account which won't delete or downgrade to 'Standard'.

I was changing the account via Start Menu - Admin Tools - User Accounts (Home premium has no proper local groups and policy control) I go through the steps but account remains as admin account and won't delete either.

Have also tried deleting in Safe Mode (command prompt)

NET USER <username> /DELETE

I get the error 'net user system error user is not a member of group'

Now I have actually disabled the account so it's not available for login

net user <username> /active:no

But really have no clue why vista is acting this way and how my daughter is able to 'switch' to this account without even changing/knowing the password (it's the 2nd time it's happened and I actually changed the password the last time.)

Any ideas please or known bugs?

We are running SP2.

Thanks.

richc46 · Oct 29, 2010

Try this hidden administrator, then in safe mode if necessary.
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/67567-administrator-account.html

imanuelae · Oct 29, 2010

richc46 said:
Try this hidden administrator, then in safe mode if necessary.
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/67567-administrator-account.html

Hi Richc46,

Started laptop in Safe mode with command prompt and ran NET USER :-

Admin - account I'm trying to delete (currently inactivated by me)
AdminX - a new admin account
Administrator - hidden / default admin account (currently inactive)
Standard - daughters standard account.
Guest

I then activated the hidden administrator account.

NET USER Administrator /active:yes

On restarting the laptop normally, 'Admin' appears in addition to 'AdminX' and 'Standard'. The administrator account I just activated has the display name of 'Admin' - I realise it's not actually the Admin' account listed by NET USER.

I login as AdminX and in control panel - user accounts and reset the password for 'Admin' also rename the account (display name) to 'AdminLaptop' so I don't mix them up!

Restart computer, login with the default administrator and run a command prompt.

NET USER returns the same users as before. I try to delete the user again...

NET USER Admin /DELETE

System error 1377
The specified account name is not a member of the group.

Try in safe mode with command prompt but same error.

When I try to add 'Admin' to 'Administrators' group.

NET LOCALGROUP Administrators /ADD Admin

System error 1378 has occurred.
The specified account name is already a member of the group.

When I try to remove 'Admin' from group

System error 1377
The specified account name is not a member of the group.

Mmm - scratching head.

Thanks for responding!

niemiro · Oct 31, 2010

That is quite strange! However, I do find net user to cause problems like this. I think that the best course of action is to try without the Command Prompt for the moment, as I have found net user to be so unreliable, as you have! You say that you have your Daughter's account. She is standard. You set up parental controls, and suddenly she is an Admin, and then you can't downgrade her. From which account are you trying to set up parental controls. I have never dealt with parental controls before, but maybe if you do it from her account it could upgrade her, and then not allow a downgrade, so that you don't lock everyone out. Seems incredibly unlikely though. Have a look here: Set up Parental Controls

although you sound perfectly proficient at this sort of thing!

Richard

vferdman · Mar 7, 2012

I can tell you how my kid is causing these same symptoms. He got a hold of a CD image with a live CD Linux image on it with a dedicated Vista password reset utility (no GUI). He boot the CD and follows simple instructions for:

* resetting or changing any user's password
* elevating any user to Administrator

Once a use is elevated to admin this way that user can no longer be demoted using normal Vista methods. At least I haven't found a method yet.

This same disk does not have a utility to demote a user account, so we are stuck with an admin account that can be neither demoted nor deleted. Hurray! Vista is really secure, isn't it? My kid did this when he was 13, btw and he is not particularly geeky in computers. Just literate teen who knows how to google and burn CDs from ISO images (even that he has learned on youTube). I am seriously considering reformatting the whole drive and reinstalling windows from scratch.

niemiro · Mar 8, 2012

vferdman said:
I can tell you how my kid is causing these same symptoms. He got a hold of a CD image with a live CD Linux image on it with a dedicated Vista password reset utility (no GUI). He boot the CD and follows simple instructions for:

* resetting or changing any user's password
* elevating any user to Administrator

Once a use is elevated to admin this way that user can no longer be demoted using normal Vista methods. At least I haven't found a method yet.

This same disk does not have a utility to demote a user account, so we are stuck with an admin account that can be neither demoted nor deleted. Hurray! Vista is really secure, isn't it? My kid did this when he was 13, btw and he is not particularly geeky in computers. Just literate teen who knows how to google and burn CDs from ISO images (even that he has learned on youTube). I am seriously considering reformatting the whole drive and reinstalling windows from scratch.

Hello vferdman, and welcome to the Vista Forums!

Thank you so much for posting this. It is incredibly useful. I don't suppose that you know the name of this live CD?

If you can, I shall investigate that particular Live CD, and see exactly what it changes on a computer. I can then use this data to attempt to create a utility to undo this process. If you can't get the name, I shall just try all that I know, and see how they each manage it (I do know of some utilities which offer this functionality)

Any insight you could offer would be very greatly appreciated.

However, I doubt that I will be able to offer this in time for your computer. It may take up to several months for this concept to go through all the different engineering and testing stages, which is probably too late for you.

However, any names you could provide would be extremely gratefully received.

Richard

vferdman · Mar 8, 2012

niemiro said:
vferdman said:

I can tell you how my kid is causing these same symptoms. He got a hold of a CD image with a live CD Linux image on it with a dedicated Vista password reset utility (no GUI). He boot the CD and follows simple instructions for:

* resetting or changing any user's password
* elevating any user to Administrator

Once a use is elevated to admin this way that user can no longer be demoted using normal Vista methods. At least I haven't found a method yet.

This same disk does not have a utility to demote a user account, so we are stuck with an admin account that can be neither demoted nor deleted. Hurray! Vista is really secure, isn't it? My kid did this when he was 13, btw and he is not particularly geeky in computers. Just literate teen who knows how to google and burn CDs from ISO images (even that he has learned on youTube). I am seriously considering reformatting the whole drive and reinstalling windows from scratch.

Click to expand...

Hello vferdman, and welcome to the Vista Forums!

Thank you so much for posting this. It is incredibly useful. I don't suppose that you know the name of this live CD?

If you can, I shall investigate that particular Live CD, and see exactly what it changes on a computer. I can then use this data to attempt to create a utility to undo this process. If you can't get the name, I shall just try all that I know, and see how they each manage it (I do know of some utilities which offer this functionality)

Any insight you could offer would be very greatly appreciated.

However, I doubt that I will be able to offer this in time for your computer. It may take up to several months for this concept to go through all the different engineering and testing stages, which is probably too late for you.

However, any names you could provide would be extremely gratefully received.

Richard

Richard, the utility I am talking about is here. It is a really wonderful, free and open source utility. You can get full source code for it. It is the best windows password reset tool out there. As far as promoting user accounts to admin, they clearly state it's experimental and one should be careful. However kids usually do not heed such warnings. What I have learned so far is that this problem of elevated user account only exists in home editions of windows because there is no tool to manage user groups as there is in Pro and Ultimate editions. What I think is hapenning is that the user gets added to administrator group and becomes a permanent admininstrator just like the famous "built-in" admin account that is always present in XP, Vista, Win7. The account can be hidden (or "disabled") easily using the same Linux based utility or even a "net user username /active:no", but the delete option does nothing. I think it's because the account has become equal to the built-in admin account. Let me know if you get any further with this.

--
Vladimir

townsbg · Mar 8, 2012

I've never had a non-pro version of windows although my parents did and it drove me nuts. I know that there is another method of controlling users which is actually better than control panel's users and groups but I don't know if it exists in a non-pro version of windows. If so it can be found under computer management which I know does exist, in part, on home editions of windows. This might help you. From the start menu type (or paste) CONTROL USERPASSWORDS2. It is more advanced that user account control however I don't know if it is on the home edition.

I've heard of utilities that can change/remove passwords and I think that they do so in the registry which might explain why once it's changed in the registry it can't be changed any other way. I have no idea because I've never been involved in this because I stay away from hacking.

Andy Pendy · Nov 27, 2012

Same issue here. My kid used pogostick CD to promote to Admin. I cannot switch it back to Standard user.
Anyone has any success on this?

Thanks!

tom982 · Nov 27, 2012

Hello Andy and welcome to the forums :party:

When I tried doing that, it completely killed my computer and wouldn't let me elevate anything so consider yourself lucky! I think your best bet is to try a System Restore:

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/76905-system-restore-how.html

This should reset things to how they were before, assuming you have a restore point before your kid fiddled with the SAM file.

Tom

Andy Pendy · Nov 27, 2012

Tom

Sad to hear that your attempt was so unsuccessful.
I did do the System Restore to (I assume) a couple days before the hack. It didn't help. That actually was the earliest restore point.
I guess without knowing exaclty what the hack does to the registry any luck might be very limited.

richc46 · Nov 27, 2012

It might be easier just to set up a new account and delete the old.

tom982 · Nov 27, 2012

Andy Pendy said:
Tom

Sad to hear that your attempt was so unsuccessful.
I did do the System Restore to (I assume) a couple days before the hack. It didn't help. That actually was the earliest restore point.
I guess without knowing exaclty what the hack does to the registry any luck might be very limited.

That's a shame, all of the user account information is stored in the SAM registry hive and I was under the impression that all registry hives are restored during a system restore - evidently not

Rich has posted a great suggestion for you.

Andy Pendy · Nov 28, 2012

Tom, ironically the topic of this thread is "Re: User Account: Can't change type or delete"

As vferdman previously said this acount becomes like "permanent admininstrator just like the famous "built-in" admin account that is always present in XP, Vista, Win7" It is really important to figure what exactly the CD does. I see Richard was going to do that but didn't get back on this to the discussion.

richc46 · Nov 28, 2012

The OP wants the problem resolved. I dont think that he is that interested in the technical details.

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