hi ed, thanks for your time, i have tried everything, i even went into other vista forums and one of the solutions said that he had been in touch with a microsoft rep who told him to hide it in windows update, and that it would not effect any previous or future updates, but since then i have been in touch with a microsoft update support rep, and i tried the two solutions that he suggested with no luck,he then instructed me on how to zip the log files and other data to him and he will look into it i will keep you posted, thanks again....patch41