RAM Limit? Vista 32-bit (Need More Video Graphics Memory)

[Reading around it seemed the General Forum was more appropriate that the one for Graphics Cards. But please move this thread if needed]

Greets --

Is it literally true that my computer is limited to 2 GB RAM internally?

Reason: I need at least 512MB total video graphics memory. With what I have now I was able to get it up to:

Total Available Graphics Memory: 256 MB
Dedicated Video Memory: 0 MB
System Video Memory: 64 MB
Shared System Memory: 190 MB
Intel Integrated Graphics 945GM

Windows Vista Home Premium 32 bit on a Toshiba Satellite A135-S4527 Laptop
Genuine Intel CPU T2080 1.73GHz 1.73 GHz
26GB of free space

(specs added below, too)

Have I have been receiving correct information about RAM limits for my computer?

I found posts in a somewhat heated thread elsewhere on the www
and was prompted to read the original article referenced:

"That 32-bit editions of Windows Vista are limited to 4GB is not because of any physical or technical constraint on 32-bit operating systems. The 32-bit editions of Windows Vista all contain code for using physical memory above 4GB. Microsoft just doesn’t license you to use that code..." ---Geoff Chappell

http://www.geoffchappell.com/viewer.htm?doc=notes/windows/license/memory.htm

Before I started digging deeper I was under the impression, from initial research (the manual that came with my computer is scant & does not say), that I could only ever max out my RAM up to 1GB chips x 2 to = a grand total of 2GB....I read this on many forums & also on the websites selling memory chips. So that's what I bought.

I learned about Readybooost and am now using a 2GB flash driver. What it looks like is happening is that with the 4GB I'm getting about 3.4 GB - when I'm using my laptop with Readyboost activated.

But shortly before I got to the info in the article linked above I started reading that I could add 4 GB internally to get what I have now:

If that's true and/or if what Chappell says is true:

Can I add 2 x 2 GB cards internally and add a 4GB flash drive externally?

Or can I mix and match 1 x 1GB + 1 X 2GB to get 3GB internally (mixed messages about that abound, too!) + a 2 to 4 GB flash drive?

Will a 2GB cards actually fit into the slots? This last time was the first time I've ever added memory to a system. I've no idea if the physical chip 'card' size remains the same or not.

I have no idea how to do what Chappelle is talking about. But if I have more to work with than I thought please post.

Thanks--

FG

I just googled the specs and it does seem like 2 gigs is the max Im not sure why/how you would be able to change how much memory is dedicated to vram. what is it that you need?

ken

filegrrrl said:

Is it literally true that my computer is limited to 2 GB RAM internally?

Click to expand...

Yes. 2 slots - 1Gb each

Reason: I need at least 512MB total video graphics memory. With what I have now I was able to get it up to:

Click to expand...

Video memory is different from system memory. However, you are not going to be upgrading your gpu on a notebook Intel GMA 950 video card with up to 256 MB shared memory

FG

I have the same chipset on my dell. why do you think you need 512? Im running win 7 with aero on this machine with no trouble. games no sweat. so how can we help?

Ken

lemur said:

....However, you are not going to be upgrading your gpu on a notebook Intel GMA 950 video card with up to 256 MB shared memory....

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input.

Any insight on this kind of message?:

"32 bit operating systems have an effective limit of 3.2 to 3.5gb of ram (depending on the hardware installed). It doesn't matter how much the system itself can accommodate, the OS itself can't access or use anything beyond that point. See this article for a more detailed explanation.

You can run with 4gig installed, but it will only utilize 3.2 to 3.5 gig..."

Are they talking about 2 slots (2x2GB?) or 3 slots - with one left unused?

Link

But posts like that one are why I was thinking of adding a 3GB flash drive to use with Readyboost + any further increase of system memory that was possible.

And yep, I did read the article he linked in his response ["Clearing Up The 32/64 bit memory Limit Confusion"]. But I fell off the cliff in a few places, not the least of which was where the author posted the math calculations.

~~~~~~~~~~

zigzag3143 said:

FG

I have the same chipset on my dell. why do you think you need 512? Im running win 7 with aero on this machine with no trouble. games no sweat. so how can we help?

Ken

Click to expand...

Well I don't know much about things like World of Warcraft, etc. Though I can tell you I have more of an appreciation for the gaming world now.

In terms of what I'll be doing with the extra? What I'm needing is to be familiar with a new virtual environment or world called **Blue Mars**----How vendor interfaces and other user systems do & will work. I have access but I'm getting crashes when I login.

The required specs are astronomical. In order to know for certain if a custom workaround will help with the integrated graphics issue I'm needing to have a minimum of 512MB Total Available Graphics Memory. I'm wanting to expand my (new) business into 3D World environments. So the sooner I can really see how this particular place works (and as it evolves) the better. It's very early days there and I want to make the best use of that ASAP.

People are falling out of their chairs when they read the requirements. Words like "can't" & "impossible" get bandied about a lot re: all computers that don' t meet the minimums. But some people are reporting getting around them. I'm interested in knowing if the last apparent possibility for my situation will work. It would be a lot easier if I could wait awhile on purchasing a brand new computer.

That's it in a nutshell.

FG

I figure you have something like an Intel 945 chipset. Its built into the mother board. It has 64 internal and uses 256 shared (memory). Even if your computer had 8 gig2 of regular ram it cant use any more than its designed for.

Im in the same boat. I have a chipset (dell) with 256 shared and 4 gigs of ram and it still can only use 3.3 of the four. thats a 32 bit limitation. My video chipset still uses 256 despite the fact that I have 2 gigs free. So I dont game on this system.

Some Laptops have the ability to put a video card internally but its a daunting job. I dont know what lappy you have but if you tell us I can research it for ya.

Ken

Hi & Thanks~

Yes, the chipset I mention is the 945 Integrated. All the info I know is also in my specs link. If anyone would need anything else let me know and I'll find it out.

So you put 2GB x 2 cards in your slots? Is there a reason I cannot? Because even aside from the virtual environment needs I'd like to have more memory. I recently bought 1GB x 2 chips because that's all I thought I could add - for a total of 2GB. If I can get 4GB in there to at least get to your 3.2 actual that would be very nice! Reason: even if I get a entirely new system I'd still keep the laptop I have now.

zigzag3143 said:

FG

I figure you have something like an Intel 945 chipset. Its built into the mother board. It has 64 internal and uses 256 shared (memory). Even if your computer had 8 gig2 of regular ram it cant use any more than its designed for.

Im in the same boat. I have a chipset (dell) with 256 shared and 4 gigs of ram and it still can only use 3.3 of the four. thats a 32 bit limitation. My video chipset still uses 256 despite the fact that I have 2 gigs free. So I dont game on this system.

Some Laptops have the ability to put a video card internally but its a daunting job. I dont know what lappy you have but if you tell us I can research it for ya.

Ken

Click to expand...

ive been watching this thread for a while, and looking at the laptop at first inspection, tosh don't seem to like displaying much about what the mainboard can handle regarding frequencies and RAM defaults, upto now, ive found out that the mainboard only has 2 slots for RAM, but what i really need to find out is if the mainboard supports frequencies above 533Mhz, if it does, then you can upgrade the ram to 8GB if you wanted, and windows will report it as 8GB even if you are on 32bit or not, but windows will not utilize anything near that amount.

In regards to the graphics memory, it depends if the chipset allows allocation to change via the GMM application drivers of which you can download and install here if not already installed but I wouldn't hold your breath as most chipsets wont allow allocation amounts to change because the bios locks the chipset from changes that maybe fatal to the operation of the laptop.

MrNeeds said:

ive been watching this thread for a while, and looking at the laptop at first inspection, tosh don't seem to like displaying much about what the mainboard can handle regarding frequencies and RAM defaults, upto now, ive found out that the mainboard only has 2 slots for RAM, but what i really need to find out is if the mainboard supports frequencies above 533Mhz, if it does, then you can upgrade the ram to 8GB if you wanted, and windows will report it as 8GB even if you are on 32bit or not, but windows will not utilize anything near that amount.

In regards to the graphics memory, it depends if the chipset allows allocation to change via the GMM application drivers of which you can download and install here if not already installed but I wouldn't hold your breath as most chipsets wont allow allocation amounts to change because the bios locks the chipset from changes that maybe fatal to the operation of the laptop.

Click to expand...

This is what I'm wondering & unsettled about where the computer is concerned [Thanks for chiming in].

Indeed, there is no consistency about what the max is that can be supported. And now it's even harder not to wonder why the info on this in the manual so thin?? All of 'this' might be why. But I was definitely concerned that the computer might catch on fire or something if I added 2GB x 2.

Or like Glenn, adding up to 8GB total - which did not explode his computer, apparently. But as I posted before, I don't know how to add the kernel he mentioned, in order to access it -and would never try it anyway. I'd just love to have at least 4GB in there.

I can see in Programs the Intel Graphics Media Accelerator Driver but not an Intel Graphics Media Manager....I'd been reading up on the definition of BIOS after finding out that graphics settings/allocation can be changed from there if allowed. I've pulled up the page you linked, will check it out.

[Seems how to access the settings are located varies, too. F12?, F11? Delete key?...But I guess why I couldn't find it anyway is because I needed the GMM. Will find out, then if I can do this with it.]

The graphics RAM limit makes more sense, if the further reallocation of graphics memory available/shared/system is, in fact, limited specifically by the chipset type (vs. being based on the total system RAM available to the machine as a whole). But I figure they could block the changes from happening in some other fashion if the system would be in danger - which they may have done anyway.

But as you said, I'm not holding my breath, though I have to look into it and see if the GMM will allow me to make a change.

MrNeeds said:

ive been watching this thread for a while, and looking at the laptop at first inspection, tosh don't seem to like displaying much about what the mainboard can handle regarding frequencies and RAM defaults, upto now, ive found out that the mainboard only has 2 slots for RAM, but what i really need to find out is if the mainboard supports frequencies above 533Mhz, if it does, then you can upgrade the ram to 8GB if you wanted, and windows will report it as 8GB even if you are on 32bit or not, but windows will not utilize anything near that amount.

In regards to the graphics memory, it depends if the chipset allows allocation to change via the GMM application drivers of which you can download and install here if not already installed but I wouldn't hold your breath as most chipsets wont allow allocation amounts to change because the bios locks the chipset from changes that maybe fatal to the operation of the laptop.

Click to expand...

Does anyone know where I can find the GMM download?

I've done a search there and cannot locate this (if it means Graphics Media Manager?). What does come up:

Intel Chipset Identification Utility

But nothing about graphics media managing.

I'm planning to downloading the Graphics Media Accelerator 950, too, but that did not sound like the same thing.

MrNeeds said:

....

In regards to the graphics memory, it depends if the chipset allows allocation to change via the GMM application drivers of which you can download and install here if not already installed but I wouldn't hold your breath as most chipsets wont allow allocation amounts to change because the bios locks the chipset from changes that maybe fatal to the operation of the laptop.

Click to expand...

Maybe this will help someone else who is new at learning about the tech inside their laptop:

1) Didn't find the Graphics Media Manager or GMM - but I did download the Graphics Media Accelerator.

Before doing that I could see the Intel 945 graphics chip in Programs (in Uninstall Programs -Add/Remove).

And the Intel web page on the GMA said that we'd be able to see, in the Device Manager, 2 instances of the Intel 945 graphics chip - 1 of the 2 representing the Intel Graphics Media Accelerator in the Device Manager (after the download or if it was already included with the computer).

Mobile Intel® 945GM Express Chipset Family - Why does Device Manager show two different graphics controllers?

But after installing the GMA it was the only related thing I could see in Uninstall Programs. Showing as the Intel Graphics Media Accelerator Driver. And no seperate Intel 945 graphics chip was listed anymore.

I didn't understand that the GMA was not just an Accelerator alone to be added to what I already had (like some of the Booster or Accelerator software I've seen and/or used before). But that it was really the name of the whole of the most updated/recent graphics driver. So when I saw after downloading the GMA driver that:

In "Uninstall Programs" there was only the "Intel Graphics Media Accelerator"

In the Device Manager still only 1 instance of the Mobile Intel (R) 945GM
Express Chipset Family showing....

I believed something had gone wrong and thought it would be best to uninstall this 'accelerator software' and reinstall it....But that was incorrect because after doing this and then a restart my Toshiba appeared booting up in Safe mode. But that wasn't the case at all.

What happened was my computer had no choice but to display a basic, standard graphics scheme. Because I'd not only uninstalled just an "Accelerator" but had taken out all of the Intel 945 graphics driver.

I have a recovery disk I've never used so I grabbed it. But then I realized I didn't have to do this in 2 steps. So I reinstalled the GMA from the website and got my graphics back.

The information read remained the same as when I downloaded the GMA that first time. So still looking different than it says on the web page linked above and in the images there. But maybe that's what it looks like in only certain computer models' Uninstall Programs and Device Manager information windows.

[Posted that because maybe it will help save someone else who is new some grief in the future. :huh: ]

______________________

2) Re: the BIOS...While I was out the other day I got an unexpected, impromptu consult. The guy gave me some good information toward my trying to get into the 3D environment I mentioned earlier in this thread (post #7). But his suggestion for where I might find the BIOS settings info for my specific laptop didn't lead there. So I'm still not able to find where to see and possibly change this (for reallocating RAM memory for graphics). He did, however, confirm that I can safely add the increased RAM to get a total of 2GB x 2 (to = 4GB) to my laptop. And that I may be able to get 3.2GB out of it. showing and:

Bascially, the limit of RAM you can install is due to 3 factors:

1) Chipset, the chipset must support the speed of the RAM.

2) Physical hardware - how many actual slots, and does your motherboard support that much anyway.

3) Vista 32-bit can only support around 3GB. For 64-bit it depends on your version of vista (home premium, home basic, business etc) and on BIOS options to access the RAM (memory remapping).

Usually, a laptop will have 2 slots. Depending on your motherboard and chipset, you can put in 2 2GB sticks for a total of 4GB. Its best to put in a matched kit. You have to pick SODIMM RAM and you have to match the speed to your chipset/motherboard.

Frostmourne said:

Bascially, the limit of RAM you can install is due to 3 factors:

1) Chipset, the chipset must support the speed of the RAM.

2) Physical hardware - how many actual slots, and does your motherboard support that much anyway.

3) Vista 32-bit can only support around 3GB. For 64-bit it depends on your version of vista (home premium, home basic, business etc) and on BIOS options to access the RAM (memory remapping).

Usually, a laptop will have 2 slots. Depending on your motherboard and chipset, you can put in 2 2GB sticks for a total of 4GB. Its best to put in a matched kit. You have to pick SODIMM RAM and you have to match the speed to your chipset/motherboard.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Frostmourne!

This are some of the things the man was telling me about. But I could not remember all the exact wording. Very grateful that you posted!

1) Appreciating the reminder that I should confirm what the motherboard can handle.

2) "Memory Remapping" -- I've read in search results and also heard from others to check many different keys. To see if one of them will let me access where I can at least see the BIOS options. Also to discover if there can be some reallocation/remapping. F2, F4, F10, F11, F12, Delete....I tried each one (one at a time during different reboots, of course) to learn which would work. I did find where to change the boot order - also where to see the BIOS type or brand (?). But as far as settings/mapping/reallocation changes - for video graphics - so far nothing. I realize I may have missed my way in - but it seemed that none of them led me there. Maybe it's not an option on my computer to do this manually. Somehow it's not the easiest bit of information to uncover, either way. Maybe I can find someone local, if needed, for a brief & deliberate, in-person, consult.

3) I just looked up SODIMM for the definition. I'd written down as much as I could before. But could not remember that name or word:

"...a SO DIMM has only 72 pins, which supports only 32-bit transfers, or 144 pins, which supports a full 64-bit transfer."

What is SO DIMM? - A Word Definition From the Webopedia Computer Dictionary

Thank you for helping to make these details clearer. It helps a lot!

SODIMM is laptop memory due to the pins. As to memory remapping, open up BIOS with Del or whatever key, then look at the menu's. There should be something.

Frostmourne said:

SODIMM is laptop memory due to the pins. As to memory remapping, open up BIOS with Del or whatever key, then look at the menu's. There should be something.

Click to expand...

Thanks!