Machine keeps dying - Any ideas ?

Will84 · May 4, 2009

Hi

I've got an ongoing, intermitent problem with my pc which, the manufacturer's tech support have so far failed to resolve. As there seem to be a lot of very well informed posters on this forum hopefully somebody here will be able to help.

Basically the machine just switches itself off, frequently and without warning. There is no obvious pattern to when this happens. It's happened whilst booting up, after a few minutes. a few hours and occassionally doesn't happen at all.

Tech support appear certain that it is either due to the cpu/motherboard overheating or a problem with the operating system. I've checked the temperatures on rebooting after it's shutdown and these have never exceeded 53 and 37 degrees (CPU and M/B respectively). Tech support seemed confident that this pointed to a problem with Vista.

I tried running the the machine in safe mode and it still shut itself down (although it did seem to be slightly more stable).

In addition to shutting down unexpectedly the machine was prone to freezing with almost all software 'not responding' (including Task Manager which was a new one on me :sarc:

). On the occassions when I could get task manager to work with the machine frozen it indicated that almost none of the system resources were being used (CPU usage about 5% and memory in the low 20% area).

Having concluded that a reinstallation was required I did a clean install using Brink's very helpful tutorial. At first the machine seemed stable after the installation however a couple of days later it began to shut down again. Other than that problem the operating system seems to be stable (so partial success).

I've disabled all the obvious sleep options in the control panel so I don't think it's anything to do with that.

Does anybody have any ideas what the problem could be and how I can solve it?

The basic system spec is as follows (full spec is listed in my profile)

Operating system: Vista Home Premium (64 Bit) - SP1
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad (Q9550 @ 2.83 GHz)
Motherboard: Asus P5N-D
Memory: 8GB DDR2 SDRAM
Graphics: NVidia Geforce GTX260

Thanks

Will

rive0108 · May 4, 2009

When the system is running is are all the fans in the case working?

We lost a fan on our desktop, and It would shut down like every 15-30 min. The computer would not reboot until It cooled, so taking the temps at startup is a useless endevour as It would not start if they exceeded the threshold.

IF After a destructive reformat re-install, you still have the same issues, It is almost definitely a Hardware issue/hardware failure. Damaged/bad PSU Mobo CPU

The Cool Guy · May 4, 2009

1) No space for the cooling of the fan
2) The fan covering might be covered with dust
3) The fan has a problem and doesn't work properly
This is sure not a software problem or a virus, it's just the fan
Cheers,

H2SO4 · May 4, 2009

Do you have one more machine close by, and do both of them have either firewire (1394) or old-school serial (Rs232) ports? If so, there's a way to hook up the two machines so the next time the "problem" machine powers itself down you'll know for certain whether the cause is software or hardware.

Ratso · May 4, 2009

I would also place the power supply on the list of suspects. An intermittent shut down may be a clue that the PSU is failing or maybe as simple as a loose plug on the mobo. Replacing the PSU is as easy fix if it is indeed the problem.

R

stew2 · May 4, 2009

Download CPUID and post a screenshot here so we can see all the values.

Will84 · May 4, 2009

Thanks for the quick responses.

In answer to your questions the case fans all appear to be working and the machine has plenty of space around it for cooling. There is evidence of dust on fan cowling but not very much.

Before the manufacturer's tech support steered me towards software my initial throught was a problem with the power supply so it's interesting to see that Ratso is thinking along the same lines. Given that it occassionally shuts down before it's even booted up this could be the most likely suspect.

H2SO4 - There is another, much older, pc sitting nearby which probably has an RS232 port (is that the old comms port ? - probably showing my ignorance here). Not sure if the new one does. I'll check when I can crawl round the back of it.

Stew2 - Which programme do I need from the CPUID site. I've downloaded HWmonitor and will take a few shots of that over the next couple of days. Let me know if you need the the values from CPU-Z and I'll download that as well.

Of course if it is a hardware problem I then need to convince the manufacturer as the PC is only 5 months old

Once again thanks for all your suggestions.

Will

inc2000 · May 4, 2009

if it does tha same thing EVEN N SAFE MODE its the 2 of the 3....motherboard..MEMORY..powersupply...it cant be the Operating System..if u can open up ur computer and dissconnect the 2 cables to the hard drive..and turn on ur computer..that rules out Vista....later try removing the memory and startn the computer and it should beep a few times...and if it goes off again its the motherboard ..finally remove the cables to the hard drive..then the memory and turn ur computer on and LEAVE IT RUNNING and if it goes off says 3 -10 minutes..its the motherboard..problem solved YEY i hope...all that should take about 30 minutes -1 hour.

Ratso · May 4, 2009

Will84 said:
Thanks for the quick responses.

Before the manufacturer's tech support steered me towards software my initial throught was a problem with the power supply so it's interesting to see that Ratso is thinking along the same lines. Given that it occassionally shuts down before it's even booted up this could be the most likely suspect.

Will

Will...

With input from inc2000, that makes three of us that suspect your issue is hardware related. So, if the PC is still under factory warranty you can't pop the covers and start pulling/checking cables without voiding it...well, maybe you can, but then can't let them know you did. Software monitoring is not going to tell you if the PSU is failing or there is a loose connector on the mobo. So, if I were you, I'd call the manufacturer and put the ball back in their court.

They may have you pop the covers and do some hardware troubleshooting with their tech support on the line so as not to void any warranty you still have. I know that Dell will do that.

R

stew2 · May 4, 2009

Its just HWmonitor that we need to screenshots off as this will show us your temps and also your voltages.

Just take one screenshot of HWmonitor when the pc has been sitting idle (not used ) for about 30 minutes and then play a game for 30 minutes and take another screenshot of HWmonitor and then post both the screenshots here.

H2SO4 · May 4, 2009

Will84 said:
H2SO4 - There is another, much older, pc sitting nearby which probably has an RS232 port (is that the old comms port ? - probably showing my ignorance here). Not sure if the new one does. I'll check when I can crawl round the back of it.

The fact that the other PC is older doesn't matter, but to run this test I'm suggesting both machines would either need to have firewire ports with a firewire cable connecting them, or serial with a "null modem" cable (not a trivial thing to find in a shop nowadays). Only having the port(s) on one machine will not be useful.

The other thing you could try is sitting in the BIOS configuration menu long enough to be sure whether the same shutdown occurs there. In other words, don't boot into Windows at all - just press whatever key takes you to the BIOS menu right at the earliest stages of boot, and then sit there overnight or even several days if necessary. A single instance of the same sudden "power-off" behaviour proves it's got nothing to do with the OS or any software you've got running there.

I agree with all the other opinions that a hardware cause seems likely, but if you're dealing with a potential warranty claim then some additional evidence may help you get past the tech support droids running interference. Personally, I wouldn't advise you to rummage 'round the hardware, because they might detect it and leave you with a broken machine, plus you shouldn't have to do it anyway if the box is under warranty.

inc2000 · May 4, 2009

VOID THE WARRANTY? if u go inside ur computer and have a warranty..u have to place a piece of clear tape on ALL Of the stickers on ur computer to 'prove' to the company that the OS is vaild..which can be debunkd lol

rive0108 · May 4, 2009

inc2000 said:
VOID THE WARRANTY? if u go inside ur computer and have a warranty..u have to place a piece of clear tape on ALL Of the stickers on ur computer to 'prove' to the company that the OS is vaild..which can be debunkd lol

How does putting clear tape on stickers prove a O/S is valid?:huh:
Warranties on hardware has nothing to do with the O/S, you can "upgrade" your O/S and other software, and the computer hardware is still warrantied

JimJoe · May 5, 2009

There was a court case a few years ago. Someone upgraded their hardware and then the original hard drive died. The computer company claimed it was due to the owner opening the case and adding the new hardware.

I don't know the details other than the court sided with the owner since the owner of the computer had tech experience. The court said the computer company had to support the hardware they installed.

So basically, the sticker on the back of the computer that says if opened your warranty is voided was over ruled by a court. So upgrade away.

rive0108 · May 5, 2009

JimJoe said:
There was a court case a few years ago. Someone upgraded their hardware and then the original hard drive died. The computer company claimed it was due to the owner opening the case and adding the new hardware.

I don't know the details other than the court sided with the owner since the owner of the computer had tech experience. The court said the computer company had to support the hardware they installed.

So basically, the sticker on the back of the computer that says if opened your warranty is voided was over ruled by a court. So upgrade away.

Thats the seal. I can unserstand that-but what does that have to do with the O/S?

avgwarhawk · May 5, 2009

Just one question, when the computer shuts down does it just blink off or does it have the usual, "Windows is shutting down" screen you normally see when you shut the computer down? In my experience, seeing this normal shutting down window is two things, the PSU or the on/off button is messed up. Most would rule out the on/off button as the problem. Don't, I had my go bad. The computer would run for days no issues then the screen would pop up, 'Windows is shutting down'. Sometimes it was a few hours or minutes and it would shut down. Days of trouble shooting. Replaced the PSU with a known good PSU. Same deal, shut down screen seen and computer shut off. I had an extra power button I ran to the mobo, that was the trick. A cheap 10 cent power button. :mad:

So, does it just blink off or shuts down as if you asked the machine to shut down?

Will84 · May 5, 2009

Thanks yet again for the continued input.

The consensus appears to be that it's a hardware problem which would seem logical given that the clean install of Vista didn't resolve it.

I'll restrict my investigations to the the non-invasive suggestions to try and avoid issues with the warrantee. If I need to bounce it back to the manufacturer (and it sounds like I will) I'll probaly start with an e-mail covering the full story as if I try phoning them (yet again) I'll just end up going over the same ground repeatedly with Tech Support. For the recod if there are any Tech Support types on here I realise it's not an easy job.

Stew2 - I'll post the HWmonitor caps when I get a chance (it might be a few days as I'm not on the pc much at the moment).

avgwarhawk - The machine just blinks off without any warning (seriously annoying if you're in the middle of something at the time).

Will

JimJoe · May 6, 2009

rive0108 said:
JimJoe said:

There was a court case a few years ago. Someone upgraded their hardware and then the original hard drive died. The computer company claimed it was due to the owner opening the case and adding the new hardware.

I don't know the details other than the court sided with the owner since the owner of the computer had tech experience. The court said the computer company had to support the hardware they installed.

So basically, the sticker on the back of the computer that says if opened your warranty is voided was over ruled by a court. So upgrade away.

Click to expand...

Thats the seal. I can unserstand that-but what does that have to do with the O/S?

The computer company refused to work on any part of the computer. I presume they meant both hardware and software.

Will84 · May 6, 2009

H2SO4 - I rebooted into the BIOS when I logged off last night and it lasted all of half an hour before shutting down. Tried again today and left it running when I went to work - came back about 4 hours later and it was off.

That seems to prove conclusively that it's a hardware issue so I'll throw it back at the manufacturer.

Will

H2SO4 · May 6, 2009

Will84 said:
H2SO4 - I rebooted into the BIOS when I logged off last night and it lasted all of half an hour before shutting down. Tried again today and left it running when I went to work - came back about 4 hours later and it was off.

That seems to prove conclusively that it's a hardware issue so I'll throw it back at the manufacturer.

Will

I'd suggest referring to it as "powering down" rather than "shutting down" when dealing with the manufacturer's tech support and/or RMA-approval folks. The latter has software connotations (the OS "shuts down"), and as you said the fact that it powers down just as much while still in the BIOS is conclusive proof that there's no link to software.

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