I have a big mess. Installing programs

probono · Jul 4, 2008

Possibly I should have read a few forums and tutorials when I first got my new Vista computer before downloading and installing a bunch of programs, but alas I didn't and now I have something of a mess.

I have some program files installed to my user account, I have some installed to the Admin account because I couldn't install them to my user account, and now I have some programs that absolutely must be installed to the user account in order to work properly but can't be because of the whole Denial of Administrator Privileges that has been brought into the picture with Vista.

I also strongly suspect some program files got installed twice also. Maybe not, but when I configure a program in my user account (like iTunes or Microsoft Outlook) those changes are not evident on the admin account. And an outrageous amount of the space on my C drive has eaten up already, much more than I suspect I've actually installed.

Basically, I would really, really love to get all of the program files onto one account, preferably the Admin account, make sure any duplicates are taken care of, and otherwise clean it up because i don't want a big sluggish registry mess within a month of owning this computer. Something like that?

If I sound like a complete newb who doesn't know what she's doing. Bingo! And I apologize, but I'm hoping you guys will be willing and able to help walk me through this anyway.

Thank you!

johngalt · Jul 5, 2008

Hi, probono, and welcome to the forums.

First of all, before we proceed any further, there are a coupe of basic concepts you need to understand with Vista. When you first setup your computer, you are asked for creating a user account - the first default one you create is *also* and administrator on the machine, but Vista has a new feature incorporated into it whereby even administrators have to allow programs privileges to execute certain tasks.

Second of all, Vista is based upon the NT kernel - and it has taken that kernel to a whole new level. The main idea here is that changes made in terms of settings will always be different for each user, so it is natural that things like iTunes and such have different settings in your user account and your administrator account. This is not a *duplicated Program* but separated settings for the same program under different user accounts. Regardless of whether you installed it under one or the other, almost always it is going to be the same program, now two "copies" of the same program.

Third, your user account has the ability to run any program with administrative privileges - the easiest way is ti usually just right click on the program's shortcut and select Run as Administrator. However, for programs that *always* require administrative privileges, you can right click on the program shortcut and select properties, and then go to the Compatibility tab, and check the box that says Run this program as administrator.

Fourth - you should *never, ever ***EVER*** be running the built in administrator account in Vista - it is the default fall back administrator account in case your user account goes AWOL.

Some older programs are notorious for not running correctly in Vista because of the "reduced" privileges - but in actuality, it is not 100% Vista's fault - those programs were poorly written in terms of being able to write data anywhere they wanted to rather than restricting themselves to the user directories, or else having access to system resources that really no user level program should have direct access to in the first place.

I hope this explains some of the things you need to understand, but feel free to post back with any questions, and also please post back a few more details, such as the actual programs in question.

Bare Foot Kid · Jul 5, 2008

probono said:
An outrageous amount of the space on my C drive has eaten up already, much more than I suspect I've actually installed.

Hello probono,

Welcome to Vista Forums!

Have a look at this... it may explain where some of the 'space' is going.

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/76227-system-restore-disk-space.html

Later :shock:

Ted

probono · Jul 5, 2008

Okay, thank you very much for explaining this all to me. What happened is, I tried downloading/installing programs to the user account. It said, No. You need Admin privileges to do that. I tried to make that user account the Admin, and like you said, it claims it's already the Admin. That's when I started searching the web and found there's this secret hidden *REAL* Admin account, and that's what I thought I needed to enable to install programs. It's been a very frustrating week.

So, as a first step i guess, how do I get Vista to allow me to download programs to that user account? Do I need to turn the UAC on or off or something else?

Also, thank you Bare Foot Kid for the info on the disk space!

johngalt · Jul 5, 2008

OK, the computer never says "No, you need Admin privileges" to do that - and I mean not in those words. The words that the Vista error and information dialog boxes pop up are very specific, and 2 or even three different dialogs can sound very similar but mean entirely different things. One key misconception is that a user (who is part of the administrators group) has no administrative privileges, when in fact they do - you'll just be asked to *grant* those privileges from time to time (most often when installing new programs or program updates).

As I said earlier, the default administrator account *is not to be used* - it is the fail safe, the backup, that is there in case your normal user account gets FUBAR'd.

RE: UAC - I ***highly* recommend that you do ***NOT*** turn of UAC - it is there for a reason.

If you need administrative privileges to install a program, you should get a warning box that asks you to continue or cancel - you simply hit continue.

Now, the exception here will be if you have gone and made your only user account a *non-admin*, aka Standard user account. That is a bad thing as well. You should have, other than your 'hidden' Administrator account, at least one other account that is an administrator as well.

So, in effect, we need to go and figure out what is going on. We know you have enabled the hidden Administrator account - not a major problem, just don't use it anymore.

We know you have installed programs possibly twice, or even more times - but they always install to the same location, unless you *manually changed it* - so you should be relatively safe on those.

What we need to know now is what your *normal* user account status is - is it an administrator account, or is it a standard (limited) user account.

Also, We need to know which applications specifically - it is *possible* that one or more may not be compatible at all with Vista.

probono · Jul 5, 2008

Ah, you're right. When I started using the Admin account, it was recommended that I change the other account to a standard non-admin account, and I did that.

I just changed it back to an Admin account.

The 2 programs I was having trouble with was an electronic drug reference program and a line counting utility for Microsoft Word. They're both supposed to be Vista compatible and again they worked fine in the Admin account where I originally installed them to begin with.

johngalt · Jul 5, 2008

Then you'll probably want to use the method I outlined about right clicking the shortcut and running as admin, or else set it using the properties / compatibility tab to always run as admin.

probono · Jul 8, 2008

John, thank you!

I was able to get those 2 problem programs working thanks to your help! I'm now having some trouble with a few other programs I had originally installed to the Admin account. They were working in my user account, but now that I've changed that to an Admin account also, they no longer seem to work. I did try to go choose the Always run as admin option in the properties tab, but that's greyed out and inaccessible.

Is there a way to move them to my user account or should I uninstall/reinstall? There's actually 15 of these programs. They're word references meant to work in conjunction with Microsoft Word. I'd hate to reinstall them all but will if that is necessary.

johngalt · Jul 9, 2008

If the run as administrator is grayed out, then apparently it has inherited the properties from the admin account, to put it in simple terms.

I would uninstall those (and you may have to log back into that administrator account to do that) and then install them from the user account.

probono · Jul 9, 2008

I've tried this with one program so far. I uninstalled it and then reinstalled under my user account. It still isn't working properly and the run as admin option is still greyed out.

I have learned, actually, that all of these programs will run from the StartUp menu in my user account; however, they are supposed to run directly from Microsoft Word itself, and that is what isn't working.

I have a big mess. Installing programs

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