Mystery BSOD (can you solve it?)

In all my years of using a computer, I have never encountered a problem as insidious as this one. I've tried every diagnostic tool available, tried every fix in the book, tried every method of troubleshooting I am aware of, and have come up empty. A full OS reinstall didn't even fix the problem, but I still can't make an airtight case for hardware fault. This error is truly an enigma. First, let me give you a little background.

My computer first started to randomly BSOD after about a year of using Vista Business x64. There was no particular trigger I could find, and I ignored it at first, thinking it was just a fluke. This went on for several weeks, and eventually I started getting annoyed enough to investigate. The first thing I tried was hard disk check, as more than a few errors cited ntfs.sys as the culprit (others mentioned tcpip.sys, and various errors with the paging subsystem). The scan picked up a few errors, and so I resumed normal computer use with a sigh of relief. But sure enough, not too long afterwords, the blue screen made a comeback.

The next step was a memory diagnostic. I ran memtest86 on the most rigorous settings, for no less than three passes, but no errors were found. Days passed, BSOD errors continued.

The next thing I tried was an OS reinstall. I figured that an in place reinstall of Vista would almost definitely take care of the problem. This is where I hit the first real snag. Every time I tried to reinstall Vista, the computer would BSOD before I could even get it started.

At first I was rather pissed off, but it didn't take long for me to realise this was the perfect opportunity to rule out hardware as the cause. Up until this point the errors had almost never been popping up before the computer had been on for over a day. Sometimes they did, but not often enough to be helpful. But by booting from the Vista setup disk, I could immediately rule out a piece of hardware as the cause of the errors. Well, it didn't take long for me to figure out what device I had to unhook to get the errors to go away. It was of course, the hard drive that I needed to do the OS reinstall on.

Ok, fine, hard disks are ludicrously cheap these days anyway. I went and picked up a 500GB hard drive, and figured that'd be it. I also decided that since I couldn't directly reinstall Vista, I'd movie up to the Windows 7 Beta. I'd been hearing good things, and I figured whatever issue had been causing my errors on Vista might not even manifest itself on the new OS.

So I got the new OS installed, then I hooked up the old hard drive to migrate my files, and then removed it from the system completely. And the BSOD errors were gone... for a while. But after a couple of month of using Windows 7, they mysteriously returned. I thought, perhaps it was something I installed or had running in the background that was the cause, so I systematically eliminated the likely culprits from my runtime, but the errors persisted.

At this point I was running out of ideas, but since the Windows 7 RC had come out recently, I decided I would just go ahead and wipe my hard disk, install it, and pray that whatever problem brought back the BSOD errors was exclusive to the beta. Unfortunately, it wasn't. This time I didn't even get a reprieve. The BSOD errors were present on the OS from the day it was installed.

So to recap, at this point here is what I know:

-My computer BSODs once per day on average. It can go as long as three days without BSODing, or it can BSOD minutes after being started.
-The is no particular connection between the BSODs and what I'm currently doing or running on the computer.
-The BSOD errors are never the same, but they tend to revolve around certain driver files (ntfs.sys, tcpip.sys, a few others I don't recall that may have only appeared once) and the paging subsystem.
-My computer passes memtest86 with flying colors.
-A persistent BSOD error in the Windows installation process was fixed my replacing my old hard drive.
-I was able to use the Windows 7 Beta for about two BSOD free months.
-The Windows 7 RC gave me BSOD errors from the beginning.

I would seem on the surface that this is a hardware issue, but then why did it go away for two months after installing the Windows 7 Beta? Honestly, this is the most thoroughly baffling computer issue I have ever experienced. If this was happening to anyone else, I'd tell them to just buy a new computer. Actually, I am looking to buy a new computer. But since that's probably not going to be happening this year, it would be very nice if someone had a solution to my problems with this computer. If someone could even tell me something I could do to troubleshoot the BSODs that I haven't tried yet, I'd greatly appreciate it.

3 different installs of (pretty much) different OS's, new HDD, and still and issue? While I would not consider a Beta or RC OS for troubleshooting this kind of issue at this point I would probably check for a BIOS update myself.
Before that though, if you have not already done so you may also want to test your machine by removing any peripheral cards that you do not absolutely have to have to run your machine; ie, just the motherboard, RAM, and a video card if your motherboard does not have one integrated. Just in case it is an incompatible driver for one of these devices that is causing the problem.

I ommitted a few details for brevity's sake, but actually, at various points I pretty much ruled out any peripherals that I can disconnect and still have my computer function as the cause of the problem. Besides, the hardware configuration hasn't changed since the two BSOD free months I had on the Windows 7 Beta.

did you boot with memtest? and run offline? also you really need to run it for a while , at least overnight and get no errors.

do you have any dump files we can look at (c/windows/minidump) there will be be .dmp files in there can you zip a few up and attach them to a post?

Im almost 100% certain this is a hardware error and with a few dump files we may be able to confirm it.

If the files contain errors that are in no way related then its most likely hardware , and most likely memory/psu

Some things to check first (apologise if you already tried these) update all yuor drivers especially motherboard/gpu/wireless/soundcard , get all yuor driver updates from the manufacturers website NOT from microsoft update.

make sure all your components ram/gpu etc are seated correctly (take them out and reseat if you have to) and make sure all power cords are firmly in place and that your cpu heatsink and fan are clean and free from dust.

after looking at some .dmp files if we think its hardware related we can point you in the direction of some software to check voltages and see how your psu is performing under load and some software to put your cpu under a bit of pressure

I already have the most recent drivers, but I can try running a marathon session of memtest86 and see if any errors come up. In the mean time, here is a sampler pack of the five most recent dump files. Let me know if you need more, because there certainly are more to choose from.

The motherboard might be at fault. Can you flash the BIOS?

Since BIOS flashing is risky, and the motherboard has not been proven as the culprit, I'd rather not. I'm at least going to wait and see if anyone can decipher the crash dump first.

Depending on the motherboard brand, flashing a BIOS can be pretty routine nowadays. Many allow you to go back to a previous version if the newer version doesn't work.

Running the crash dumps as I type. I suspect your motherboard - as you've replaced the drive that the errors "seemed" to be coming from - and have installed other OS's. That would seem to point at the mobo (particularly the hard drive controller) as the source of the problem.

When you installed the OS's, did you install drivers for the motherboard/chipset? Are there any unidentified/unknown/problem devices in Device Manager?

All the dump files are from a Win7 installation, so that'll have to be taken into consideration here.

The following summary shows the errors spread out across a lot of subsystems - usually a sign of a low level hardware problem (2 of the 5 refer to networking components):

There are some older drivers on the system:

Now, we're drawing a lot of conclusions from a little bit of information - but the most common error seems to point to networking components. Update the above drivers and see if that helps. This doesn't mean it's the motherboard - but it could be one of the devices built onto the motherboard or attached to the motherboard (and the USB bus comes into play here because of the USB modem).

Since this is a Windows 7 installation we can't rule out incompatibilities that may be causing this. Try this free tool to see if there's anything obvious noted: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/upgrade-advisor.aspx

If you continue to get BSOD's after all of this, then we'll have to start disabling the networking devices in the BIOS (and physically removing the one's that can be removed) to rule out the networking component.

Good luck!

phew blimey thats a tough one...have you tried getting Chuck Norris in to roundhouse the damn thing?

usasma said:

Running the crash dumps as I type. I suspect your motherboard - as you've replaced the drive that the errors "seemed" to be coming from - and have installed other OS's. That would seem to point at the mobo (particularly the hard drive controller) as the source of the problem.

When you installed the OS's, did you install drivers for the motherboard/chipset? Are there any unidentified/unknown/problem devices in Device Manager?

All the dump files are from a Win7 installation, so that'll have to be taken into consideration here.

The following summary shows the errors spread out across a lot of subsystems - usually a sign of a low level hardware problem (2 of the 5 refer to networking components):

Code:

Built by: 7100.0.amd64fre.winmain_win7rc.090421-1700
Debug session time: Fri Jul  3 21:32:28.925 2009 (GMT-4)
System Uptime: 1 days 20:27:37.832
BugCheck FC, {fffff900c2509740, de3000001e540863, fffff880036f1910, 2}
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for win32k.sys
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for win32k.sys
Probably caused by : win32k.sys ( win32k+c32b9 )
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT
PROCESS_NAME:  csrss.exe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Built by: 7100.0.amd64fre.winmain_win7rc.090421-1700
Debug session time: Sun Jul  5 00:15:19.920 2009 (GMT-4)
System Uptime: 0 days 1:58:44.842
BugCheck D1, {78, 2, 0, fffff88004096375}
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for RTKVAC64.SYS
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for RTKVAC64.SYS
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for yk62x64.sys
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for yk62x64.sys
Probably caused by : RTKVAC64.SYS ( RTKVAC64+14375 )
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT
PROCESS_NAME:  System
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Built by: 7100.0.amd64fre.winmain_win7rc.090421-1700
Debug session time: Sat Jul  4 22:15:27.783 2009 (GMT-4)
System Uptime: 1 days 0:42:00.705
BugCheck 3B, {c0000005, fffff960001164c9, fffff880066c9d10, 0}
Probably caused by : win32k.sys ( win32k+464c9 )
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT
PROCESS_NAME:  opera.exe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Built by: 7100.0.amd64fre.winmain_win7rc.090421-1700
Debug session time: Mon Jul  6 07:51:20.681 2009 (GMT-4)
System Uptime: 1 days 7:01:05.603
BugCheck 4E, {99, 17f52, 3, 22c10}
Probably caused by : memory_corruption ( nt!MiBadShareCount+4c )
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT
PROCESS_NAME:  System
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Built by: 7100.0.amd64fre.winmain_win7rc.090421-1700
Debug session time: Mon Jul  6 15:38:20.422 2009 (GMT-4)
System Uptime: 0 days 7:46:05.329
BugCheck D1, {0, 2, 1, fffff88003f31e17}
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for yk62x64.sys
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for yk62x64.sys
Probably caused by : hardware ( yk62x64+11e17 )
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT
PROCESS_NAME:  System

There are some older drivers on the system:

Code:

SiWinAcc.sys Mon Nov 01 15:23:29 2004[B] Silicon Image SATA Link Accelerator Driver[/B]
SiRemFil.sys Wed Oct 18 18:20:39 2006 [B]Silicon Image SATALink Controller[/B]
ASACPI.sys   Sun Mar 27 22:30:36 2005 [B]Asus utility - read this post:  [/B][B]http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/14477-contast-bsods-2.html#post157051[/B]
lgx64diag.sys Mon Apr 09 01:06:03 2007 [B]LG USB Modem[/B]
lgx64bus.sys Mon Apr 09 01:03:44 2007 [B]LG USB Modem[/B]
lgx64modem.sys Mon Apr 09 01:07:50 2007 [B]LG USB Modem [/B]

Now, we're drawing a lot of conclusions from a little bit of information - but the most common error seems to point to networking components. Update the above drivers and see if that helps. This doesn't mean it's the motherboard - but it could be one of the devices built onto the motherboard or attached to the motherboard (and the USB bus comes into play here because of the USB modem).

Since this is a Windows 7 installation we can't rule out incompatibilities that may be causing this. Try this free tool to see if there's anything obvious noted: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/upgrade-advisor.aspx

If you continue to get BSOD's after all of this, then we'll have to start disabling the networking devices in the BIOS (and physically removing the one's that can be removed) to rule out the networking component.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Ungh, I had written a rather lengthy response to this, but I lost it due to a BSOD. Anyway, after the BSOD I updated my nforce network drivers and my ASACPI.sys file. Let's see if that helps. If not, you still gave me plenty of other idea to work with.

Edit: Ok, that didn't help. Next I'm trying disabling the IDE channels.

Disable anything that you don't need (or can live without for a while).
If you've got onboard video, try disabling it after you install a standalone video card.
If you've got an onboard NIC, try disabling it after you install a standalone NIC card.

Run a memory test on the system to see if some of the sticks/slots are bad. You can test all the sticks on the first slot (individually), then use one of the good one's to test all the other slots.

All you need is: CPU & cooler, mobo, PSU, case, hard drive, video, and a keyboard (and a NIC card if you connect to the internet). You can live without a CD/DVD drive while testing (unless you're running tests from it).

Ok, I've been able to confirm a few things. First, a BIOS update did not help, even though I was a bit optimistic after the update triggered the installation of new network and SATA drivers. Second, the errors can still occur even with all non-essential peripherals enabled.

The next thing I'm going to try in running my computer with only one memory stick at a time. Even if the memory tests don't show any errors, if the BSODs occur with one stick but not the other, that's just about the most conclusive proof I could get that the memory was the problem. Failing that, I think I'm going to have to assume the problem is either a faulty motherboard or CPU, neither of which I care to replace right now with the purchase of a new PC on the horizon.

Hmm... it appears neither memory stick is the culprit either. But actually, when I put all the pieces together, I think I now have enough information to solve this mystery.

The BSOD errors may seem unrelated at first glance, but the truth is, they are very related. Every one of them cited a failure in a major component of an I/O subsystem. If the problem isn't the memory, then there's really only one thing it could be. It seems that my motherboard's northbridge, or a component tied very closely to it, is screwed up big time. That would explain why neither heavy CPU, memory, or graphics card usage have an effect, since all of those components move data through the southbridge.

Unfortunately, there's not really a whole lot I can do about a bad northbridge short of buying a new motherboard, so it looks like I'm stuck with these random BSODs until I get a new computer. Oh well... thanks for trying guys.

I've been doing some reading recently (Windows Internals v5, pg 801) and wonder if there's a partial solution there.

I have not tested this, but I don't believe it'll hurt your system (but may interfere with some programs). If it does interfere, just restore the settings that we change and things should operated normally.

What I propose is disabling your pagefile. My readings indicate that IRQL errors may only occur when they involve paged memory. So, no pagefile, no place to page memory out to?

Anyhow, Go to Start and type in "sysdm.cpl" (without the quotes) and press Enter
Click on the Advanced tab
Click on the Performance Settings button
Click on the Advanced tab
Click on the Virtual Memory Change button
Uncheck "Automatically manage paging file..." if it's checked
Click on the No Paging File radio button, then click on Set
Click on Apply, then click on OK to exit the dialogs
Reboot the system

Wait and see if this stops, decreases, or doesn't change the BSOD behavior.

Please let us know the results as this could help a lot of people!
Thanks!

Actually, I believe in my case the results would be misleading. If the problem really is the northbridge, disabling the page file would likely fix all errors relating to the paging subsystem, but all the other I/O device errors I was getting would continue to occur.

I'll still give it a try, but another issue is that I only have 1GB of RAM in this machine, so if I disabled paging I'd constantly be running out of memory. Even if this does fix all my errors, it wouldn't be a viable permanent solution.

ARRRGGGHHH!!! I lost my lengthy response also!

OK, here it is again:
- your system shows IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL errors with the IRQL being at level 2 (DPC/dispatch level)

This is abstraced from Windows Internals v5, pg 801 - Force IRQL Checking:
- The memory manager can't service a page fault when the IRQL is at level 2 or higher.
- The system may not detect improper accesses of pageable data when that data is physically resident in RAM (because a page fault isn't required).
- At other times, the data may be paged out - requiring a page fault be issued to locate the data.
- Since the memory manager can't service this page fault, the system crashes with an IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error (like the one that you're getting).

Also, this may be useful to rule out the drivers as the cause (and, in the best case, it may tell us that your motherboard isn't the issue - but more about that later on in this post!)

Please pause here while I bang my head against my desk!
I don't know why I didn't suggest this earlier, but this is an ideal case in which to run Driver Verifier (this is one of the errors that it checks!)

Please read the following instructions completely before running the tool. It can cause your system to lock into a BSOD loop and you may not be able to get into Windows:

Using Driver Verifier is an iffy proposition. Most times it'll crash and it'll tell you what the driver is. But sometimes it'll crash and won't tell you the driver. Other times it'll crash before you can log in to Windows. If you can't get to Safe Mode, then you'll have to resort to offline editing of the registry to disable Driver Verifier.


So, I'd suggest that you first backup your stuff and then make sure you've got access to another computer so you can contact us if problems arise. Then make a System Restore point (so you can restore the system using the Vista Startup Repair feature).


Then, here's the procedure:
- Go to Start and type in "verifier" (without the quotes) and press Enter
- Select "Create custom settings (for code developers)" and click "Next"
- Select "Select individual settings from a full list" and click "Next"
- Select everything EXCEPT FOR "Low Resource Simulation" and click "Next"
- Select "Automatically select unsigned drivers" and click "Next"
If no drivers show up, then select "Select driver names from a list" and click "Next"
Then select all drivers NOT provided by Microsoft and click "Next"
- Select "Finish" on the next page.


Reboot the system and wait for it to crash to the Blue Screen. Continue to use your system normally, and if you know what causes the crash, do that repeatedly. The objective here is to get the system to crash because Driver Verifier is stressing the drivers out.


Reboot into Windows, turn off Driver Verifier by going back in and selecting "Delete existing settings" on the first page, then locate and zip up the memory dump file and upload it with your next post.


If you can't get into Windows because it crashes too soon, try it in Safe Mode.
If you can't get into Safe Mode, try using System Restore from your installation DVD to set the system back to the previous restore point that you created.
If that doesn't work, post back and we'll have to see about fixing the registry entry off-line.

Click to expand...

Ok, for what it's worth I confirmed my computer still BSODs with paging disabled. It happened twice, but neither error mentioned and IRQ issue. I'll try you driver verifier suggestion next.

Please upload the crash dump files from the time that the pagefile was disabled. That may point to something else as the cause. This is untouched territory AFAIK - so it'll be interesting to see if we can solve IRQL BSOD's by disabling the pagefile (which removes that portion of the IRQL error).

Continue with running the Driver Verifier to see if we can get information/confirmation.

Here you go. They're both so close together because the second one occured immediately after a reboot.